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Ōryōki Web Browser

oryoki.io

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Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#111

Post by enoch_r »

intopieces wrote: post #98
callumlocke wrote: post #76

This page is a good example of what's wrong with HN. Someone publishes their open source experiment in minimal browser UI design, and everyone shits on it for not being a built-from-scratch web browser with low memory usage.

This is a good example of what is right with HN. Technical people expressing their technical demands w/r/t a technical project. If you want people to ooh and ahh over a project and keep quiet about its faults, show it your relatives.

You don't get it.

Someone built an experiment in minimalistic UI design. "Technical people" started a massive pile-on, declaring "this is stupid, this doesn't have a minimalistic codebase at all."

That's not a technical demand, and it's not identifying a product's faults. That's a demand that this project have an entirely different purpose.

Personally, I use `chromium --kiosk-mode` as my everyday browser, and this project looks like something I'd be interested in if I were on a compatible OS. Not a small codebase, not a lightweight browser, but that's not what I care about. I want something that has Chrome's features (great devtools, doesn't crash every hour like the webkit browsers I've tried) but with less UI devoted to, uh, chrome that I don't use or want or need.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#112

Post by scrollaway »

brianwawok wrote: post #85
scrollaway wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't assume everybody uses their computer like you do and only runs one browser maximized on their only monitor connected to their powerhouse of a computer equipped with a last-gen CPU and 64 gigabytes of ram. For example, I sometimes play very resource-hungry games and like to have a youtube video on my second monitor while I play. But that's not possible on my gaming PC, so I have to youtube-dl the video first and…

That seems like exactly what you are doing. So you want to run a game and a youtube video and browse at the same time, while on a low end PC. Cool. A lot of people don't use their computer like that. I can do all of that at the same time as is...

What kind of ridiculous, fallacious logic is this?

First of all, it's not a low end PC, it's an expensive gaming-dedicated rig barely a couple of years old. The amount of resources browsers consume is just ridiculously high.

Second, the argument that browsers should use all the resources and ram available in the world only holds if your computer is dedicated to web browsing. This is quite obviously false - I shouldn't even have to give you my case as an example. PCs are general computing machines.

Web browsers are too hungry for what they do. Not every tab is meant to run a full blown web app with webgl and megabytes of javascript code. The point I was making was that what I'm not able to do with Firefox/Chrome, I'm able to do with vlc. That is preposterous for something that wants to be "the future of the desktop".

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#113

Post by hockeybias »

zatkin wrote: post #89
aerovistae wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone interested, here are some web browsers that are very lightweight and don't bother with HTML at all: https://www.google.com/search?q=spiders&espv=2&biw=1439&bih=...

For anyone interested, I'm just gonna stick to Safari on my Mac and iOS.

For anyone interested, I'm going for a walk outside.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#114

Post by ksk »

callumlocke wrote: post #76

This page is a good example of what's wrong with HN. Someone publishes their open source experiment in minimal browser UI design, and everyone shits on it for not being a built-from-scratch web browser with low memory usage.

Unfortunately that's how the real world is when you ask people to spend their time to look at what you've done. They are going to look at it for exactly 10 seconds and tell you it sucks or that they have no use for it.

If HN (or any other website) turns into a "Its OK, you're among friends here" type of auto-fawning community, it would delude people into thinking they're actually doing something worth showing to people as opposed to hacking on a hobby project for their own enjoyment. (This isn't specific to the linked project)

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#115

Post by aeorgnoieang »

peruvian wrote: post #79
pavs wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a problem a browser can solve? I mean modern websites are so large with so many crappy stuff and always loading something in the background - if you have 15-20 tabs with similar background loading web sites your browser is bound to consume a lot of memory. If I am not missing something obvious, aren't we blaming the wrong thing?

I'm not sure about that. Chrome's Task Manager says this HN post is taking 255mb and the front page 101mb.

That's weird. Chrome is only using 31 MB for both tabs for me.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#116

Post by kornholi »

NateyJay wrote: post #104
flubar wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ask myself this from time to time. It's hard to quantify quality, but I'm certain that the exponential increase of power in todays PC vs. that of a PC from the 90's is not reflected in an exponential improvement of the vast majority of software currently using this power. It seems that the more power that there is available, the sloppier the use of it. I wonder if someone already formulated some kind of law that de…

Not a law, but a saying I've heard that captures the feeling. "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away."

Unfortunately, Intel giveth no more :(

I've been hearing discouraging things from both architecture and silicon people at Intel. It seems like they lost direction, probably because of the recent explosion of mobile/ARM.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#117

Post by twiceaday »

enoch_r wrote: post #111
intopieces wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good example of what is right with HN. Technical people expressing their technical demands w/r/t a technical project. If you want people to ooh and ahh over a project and keep quiet about its faults, show it your relatives.

You don't get it. Someone built an experiment in minimalistic UI design . "Technical people" started a massive pile-on, declaring "this is stupid, this doesn't have a minimalistic codebase at all." That's not a technical demand , and it's not identifying a product's faults. That's a demand that this project have an entirely different purpose . Personally, I use `chromium --kiosk-mode` as my everyday browser, and this…

The warranted response is obviously a mix of technical and product-based critique. But you would be foolish to expect every comment to convey this mix.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#118

Post by enoch_r »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #106
callumlocke wrote: post #76

This page is a good example of what's wrong with HN. Someone publishes their open source experiment in minimal browser UI design, and everyone shits on it for not being a built-from-scratch web browser with low memory usage.

Being experimental and open source resonates with most users here, but it doesn't make the project immune from technical criticism. Aesthetically, it's an interesting proposal for minimalism, but technically, it's literally the opposite.

I posted this elsewhere, but since a lot of people seem genuinely confused about why someone would want a project like this, I'll say it again.

I use `chromium --kiosk-mode` as my daily browser. Chromium has features I value highly (e.g. great devtools, doesn't constantly crash like webkit), but I'd rather have a more minimalistic user interface (less space devoted to chrome I don't want to waste screen real estate on).

Note that this preference is completely orthogonal to the desire to have a lighter weight, more minimalistic browser in terms of codebase, memory usage, etc.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#119

Post by rcarmo »

Cyph0n wrote: post #93
aplaice wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone interested, here are some web browsers that are actually lightweight (if not html5-compliant) and not webkit-based: http://www.dillo.org/ http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

NetSurf actually looks good.

I use NetSurf on a Raspberry Pi B regularly. Does the job unless you need JS.

Re: Ōryōki Web Browser

#120

Post by spriggan3 »

billyhoffman wrote: post #92
spriggan3 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the biggest offender in all this IS javascript in webpages. Though even more Javascript in the browser UI isn't going to solve the Javascript problem when it comes to performances. Anybody can shift+Esc on Chrome and see how Javascript heavy pages consume a shocking amount of Memory.

This page on HN has 5 lines of inline JavaScript. It downloaded ~25KB of content, over 5 HTTP requests (HTTP/2 even), 3 of which are images, all of which are GIF images This tab is consuming 98 MB of RAM. I am in incognito mode, with no plugins. While crazy site do crazy things with JS and have crazy bad user experiences (TMZ.com makes 700+ requests and takes over 90seconds to load), 98 MB of ram for a HN tab is ridi…

No an average HN page consumes less than 20MB on my computer. And you didn't tell us how much RAM TMZ.com is consuming, 165MB on my computer (a 4GB RAM , quad core N2940 laptop), so 8 times more RAM.
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