China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet • Hacker News Board

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#111

Post by chii » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #89

kweks wrote: post #29

I was there literally three days ago. The place is nothing short of breathtaking. Nestled at 4200km, it was a three day motorbike ride from Chengdu. Even at its foothills, you have no concept of the scale of the town hiding in the hills. This will truly be a tragic loss - the town is much more than the 'slum' it is represented as - it's arguably the most important Buddhist learning institution in the world.. Photos f…

Wow. Those are the most beautiful slums I've ever seen. Thanks for sharing!

I believe those photos are taken with a camera capable of HDR, which definitely puts it in better light than it is in reality - it almost looks photoshopped!

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#112

Post by intended » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:43 PM UTC

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #106

auganov wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

> India's Jammu and Kashmir Except there was no ethnic cleansing by the Tibetans like in Kashmir. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Kashmiri_H...

Yes China is doing it much better. No press, full military control, reincarnation is literally banned (this means the next spirtiual/political leader is decided by the communist leadership), followed by the settling of mainlanders in Tibet. These settlers in turn disdain and look down on the Tibetans and their existence.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#113

Post by golergka » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

Udik wrote: post #97

golergka wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Use violence if it can lead to less net violence — this is my standard. Terror acts are a direct opposite of this.

And in the meantime keep grabbing somebody else's land. You're a man of high principles, indeed.

You mean like Sinai and Gaza?

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#114

Post by golergka » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #83

golergka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a choice between your human rights and someone else's life — obviously. Also, "fight back in a wrong way" is a very curious way to label brutal attacks targeting civilians that go on non-stop for the last hundred years — long before any of alleged grievances that you would be "fighting back" against even began.

> attacks targeting civilians that go on non-stop for the last hundred years Those go on non-stop from BOTH sides. And statistically the side you seem to be siding with has caused 100 times the casualties --doing those "brutal attacks targeting civilians" with full military force, not ad-hoc weaponry (plus they have amassed all this land areas they didn't use to have). Or is that just a minor detail?

The important detail here, which you ignore, is targeting.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#115

Post by iofj » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #106

auganov wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

> India's Jammu and Kashmir Except there was no ethnic cleansing by the Tibetans like in Kashmir. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Kashmiri_H...

And yet 5 posts away you see people blaming Israelis for refusing to expose themselves to that same treatment. The big detail always omitted is that Palestinians have their culture in a massive area, yet Israelis don't have one square meter more than what they have there. Oh, and the Palestinian culture is the one with the extensive history of violently oppressing other cultures and religions ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians ), including in Palestina itself ( http://int.icej.org/media/palestinian-christians ). All of the world, of course, is silent on that. Not that they just persecute Christians ( https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecution_of_Homosexuals_%28Pal... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/08/what-it-s-l... etc.)

All of it doesn't matter. Nobody's willing to fight for Tibet, or for Atheists, or ... Fight, as in "fight, kill and die", credibly, against the dictatorship that rules China, against, well let's be honest here : against most Muslims, and I'm sure there will be occasionally some slight effort required against a Christian too.

Looking at a map of 1950's, finding China, and looking at China now will make anyone scared.

Can someone point me to a good Mandarin course ?

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#116

Post by christophilus » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:50 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #95

nsomaru wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renunciation is defined with reference to your mental attitude towards possessions, not the presence or absence thereof. See, for example the 'Royal Sage' (Raja Rshi).

Hypocrisy though is defined by "the presence or absence thereof".

Not really. Detachment from love of material possessions doesn't imply having no material possessions. It implies a lack of a disordered love for them. The true test of hypocrisy would be to see how one of those monks responds when his phone gets stolen.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#117

Post by sandGorgon » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:50 PM UTC

auganov wrote: post #27

bhouston wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China : Tibet :: Israel : Palestine, they are analogous in many ways. The human rights groups talk about the problems, we recognize it is bad, the weaker ethnic community suffers and is oppressed, the more powerful ethnic group makes slow but steady progress in exerting its wishes, and no real changes are effected by the international community.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

J&K has nothing to do with ethnicity. There is a larger number of people who don't want to separate from India than there are who want to.

J&K is a territorial flashpoint - with ethnic unrest that is funded.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#118

Post by userbinator » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:51 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #111

themartorana wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Those are the most beautiful slums I've ever seen. Thanks for sharing!

I believe those photos are taken with a camera capable of HDR, which definitely puts it in better light than it is in reality - it almost looks photoshopped!

The saturation is really high, which makes the colours look unreal.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#119

Post by chii » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:55 PM UTC

whistlerbrk wrote: post #94

Remember when free trade was going to democratize and open China? What happened? This is terrible

THe free trade was never intended to do anything other than make a class of connected people richer.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#120

Post by chii » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

deepfriedbits wrote: post #28

sintaxi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under what legal authority does that cap exist?

It's China, so it falls under the authority of the CPC first, then any legal considerations second. We marvel at how quickly they built up high speed rail, but when you can just seize land without regard to imminent domain, associated lawsuits and the like, things tend to get expedited.

Indeed every great human achievement had been accomplished with great human suffering and injustice. But perhaps that's the reality of the human condition, and nothing is ever going to change that.