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American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

theatlantic.com

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Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#111

Post by Aloha »

I learned when I was a child it was dangerous to be the smartest person in the room. It's much safer to appear to be the village idiot, or at least less bright that the brightest.

I do disagree fundamentally with the concept of the evils of merit - merit is so much more than smarts and formal education, its a mix of capacity for the role, agreeability and eagerness, productivity, effort expended, grooming and appearance, and a dozen other factors, most of which are intangible. You don't have to be information work level of smart to achieve these qualities either.

The problem is a belief that certain kinds of education make one more suitable for a role. I'd take someone with 4 more years of real world experience over that college degree any day.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#113

Post by icebraining »

Hondor wrote: post #67
emptybits wrote: post #17

I'm having difficulty reconciling this claim with how I see American society judging the worth of political candidates. (Also in the journalistic outlets American society values the most.)

People tend to overestimate their own competence (and I suppose intelligence), so they must also see anyone who agrees with them as being of high intelligence too. That means we think the politicians we vote for are smart. It's just the ones other people vote for that aren't. Nobody will say "I want X but I'm not very smart so the politician who promises X is also not very smart and I won't vote for him."

I don't think so; for example, back in 2004, a poll showed that way more people considered Kerry intelligent compared to Bush. Yet Bush was seen as more decisive and made more people "feel more optimistic about the future".

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/articles/lnews/2004-07-14/poll...

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#114

Post by MarkPNeyer »

x5n1 wrote: post #74
guscost wrote: post #43

I'm a huge fan of Mike Rowe. He's done some amazing journalism with "Dirty Jobs" and his mikeroweWORKS foundation is terrific. He claims that unconditional encouragement toward intellectual dreams does not help most people, and argues that more kids should be pursuing professional trades. This overlaps with one of the better suggestions from this article. In general I think these are hit or miss, and maybe too academ…

At the end of the day say that you paid everyone the same amount of money regardless of whether they worked or did not. And there was no additional way to make money. Maybe there was an additional barter economy where you could work for things that you could then trade for other things. How would that change things. Because now no one would have to work and would only do things if they wanted to do them. And everyone…

I think you've really just made the case here for starting your own company, rather than working for someone e.se

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#115

Post by zemblan »

selectron wrote: post #103
dopu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment adds nothing of worth to the discussion. So what if you don't see any problems with meritocracy? Explain why you feel that way.

The whole premise was based on the assumption that meritocracy is bad - my point is that this is a flawed assumption. The proposed solutions were the government could step in and "discourage hiring practices that arbitrarily and counterproductively weed out the less-well-IQ’ed." This is counter to science - it has been shown that intelligence is one of the best predictors of the quality of an employee. Why should the…

There's no reason that a doctor can't be a murderer. See Harold Shipman. That speaks to the core problem here. A less intelligent but more diligent and trustworthy person can be the better employee.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#116

Post by zemblan »

selectron wrote: post #103
dopu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment adds nothing of worth to the discussion. So what if you don't see any problems with meritocracy? Explain why you feel that way.

The whole premise was based on the assumption that meritocracy is bad - my point is that this is a flawed assumption. The proposed solutions were the government could step in and "discourage hiring practices that arbitrarily and counterproductively weed out the less-well-IQ’ed." This is counter to science - it has been shown that intelligence is one of the best predictors of the quality of an employee. Why should the…

There's no reason that a doctor can't be a murderer. See Harold Shipman. That speaks to the core problem here. A less intelligent but more diligent and trustworthy person can be the better employee.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#117

Post by PeterStuer »

smt88 wrote: post #105
PeterStuer wrote: post #99

As a non-American, and so 'judging' America only through the media, it does feel like the complete opposite. Deep ingrained anti-intellectualism, idolization of stupidity and love of the brazen and the rich. Scary decline of the sciences and rapid expansion of superstitions. Of course this does not apply to this here readership, but at least from an outside perspective we see 'idiocracy' surging onto the stage at bre…

Your assessments are not consistent with facts. You imply that the media is a distorting lens, but then you go on to espouse views that come entirely from the media. I'm not sure I understand that. The US is becoming less religious, and it is the least religious it has ever been. People aren't increasingly idolizing stupidity or loving the rich, or Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders wouldn't have done as well as they di…

Yes, i accept that the media is a distorting lens, that is why I specifically put this in as a disclaimer, but not living there it is the only lens I have available. I'll give you Sanders as a point in showing at least an attempt at curbing extreme neo-liberalism, but Trump seems (to me) like the front runner in the race to 'idiocracy'.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#118

Post by sandworm101 »

>> The 2010s, in contrast, are a terrible time to not be brainy.

That sums it up. Intelligence doesn't matter, rather the appearance of intelligence gets one ahead. Appearing "brainy" counts more than actually being brainy. TheBigBangTheory is part of that trend. Intelligent people are expected to project a particular image. IRL that never happens. Many very smart people couldn't care less for trek, comics or any of the other stereotypes. And conversely, there are many absolutely not-smart people who do very well by simply dressing the part. I say bring on the standardized tests. Let us separate the smart from the fashionable.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#119

Post by tempestn »

smt88 wrote: post #105
PeterStuer wrote: post #99

As a non-American, and so 'judging' America only through the media, it does feel like the complete opposite. Deep ingrained anti-intellectualism, idolization of stupidity and love of the brazen and the rich. Scary decline of the sciences and rapid expansion of superstitions. Of course this does not apply to this here readership, but at least from an outside perspective we see 'idiocracy' surging onto the stage at bre…

Your assessments are not consistent with facts. You imply that the media is a distorting lens, but then you go on to espouse views that come entirely from the media. I'm not sure I understand that. The US is becoming less religious, and it is the least religious it has ever been. People aren't increasingly idolizing stupidity or loving the rich, or Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders wouldn't have done as well as they di…

> Deep ingrained anti-intellectualism, idolization of stupidity and love of the brazen and the rich.

You're saying Donald Trump's support is evidence against those things? It seems like exactly the opposite to me, on all counts.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#120

Post by curioussavage »

WalterBright wrote: post #84

Anti-intellectualism runs deep in American society. Consider the words nerd, wonk, geek, brainiac, college boy, the negative Hollywood stereotypes, etc. The Big Bang Theory is the latest incarnation of that. My father learned to keep his book collection out of the living room.

I disagree. Citing a few labels is easy, Hollywood and popular culture have stereotypes for every kind of person. Everybody thinks they are the persecuted group. I think the opposite.

America most certainly worships intellectuals, who control public education. So starting at age 5-6 kids are brainwashed into thinking that they are 'stupid' if they can't do arithmetic in their head, or remember all the inane rules of the english language in their writing or what have you. It is ingrained into their skulls that if they don't go to college and take out loans to get what is basically now a glorified high school diploma++ they are failures.

If you are having a conversation with someone and they ask where you went to college, and you reply that you dropped out or didn't go there is always an awkward moment. If you are making a good living or you hit it big, you are the exception. You slipped through the cracks thats all.

Don't get me wrong As someone who grew up with his nose in a book, I know you ridiculed. But getting made fun of by a bunch of insecure children/teenagers is one thing. All major modern institutions of any importance exalt the intellectual while debasing anyone who hasn't been blessed.

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