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Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

theguardian.com

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Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#111

Post by Frondo »

hga wrote: post #109
Frondo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! You really want to go to war on your fellow Americans! So much for democracy, eh? Screw voting, let's kill those lefties, is what you're saying. "if you're on the Left/progressive, you should stop pushing the other half of the country so hard." So, because a bunch of folks on twitter talk about rape culture or because gay people can now marry their partners...line in the sand kind of thing? I mean, you won't dis…

No, Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen (TWANLOC) have been at war with my side for many decades, and things might be coming to a head. But I think the fact that my side is realizing we really are in a war, that we've been mostly losing outside of gun control (where our betters have been catastrophically losing outside of a few benighted states), and are starting to respond like in supporting Trump ... well, surel…

So you want to start murdering people over "gay wedding cakes". Well, good luck, I guess. That's not much of a rallying cry, "hell no, we won't bake your gay wedding cakes!"

Man, I'm less scared now than feeling sorry for you. It must be really hard to live in a constant sort of bullet-laced fever dream, very stressful and unpleasant. I hope that some day you can shake it off and rejoin the rest of us in normal democratic society. I mean that sincerely, I wish you the best in your struggle.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#112

Post by DanBC »

Frondo wrote: post #111
hga wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen (TWANLOC) have been at war with my side for many decades, and things might be coming to a head. But I think the fact that my side is realizing we really are in a war, that we've been mostly losing outside of gun control (where our betters have been catastrophically losing outside of a few benighted states), and are starting to respond like in supporting Trump ... well, surel…

So you want to start murdering people over "gay wedding cakes". Well, good luck, I guess. That's not much of a rallying cry, "hell no, we won't bake your gay wedding cakes!" Man, I'm less scared now than feeling sorry for you. It must be really hard to live in a constant sort of bullet-laced fever dream, very stressful and unpleasant. I hope that some day you can shake it off and rejoin the rest of us in normal democ…

hgs pushes my buttons too. But it's probably best to just flag the posts where he threatens mass murder.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#113

Post by 0xfeba »

EdHominem wrote: post #87
0xfeba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. If you ignore some 200 years of jurisprudence, you might have a point.

Well yeah, if it wasn't constitutional it should be ignored. The courts can't make something constitutional.

> The courts can't make something constitutional.

That's literally what they do. They determine if executive or legislative branch actions are constitutional or not.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#114

Post by 0xfeba »

deadfece wrote: post #96
0xfeba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. If you ignore some 200 years of jurisprudence, you might have a point.

In the present day, civilians own tanks, cannons, rocket launchers, grenades, machine guns, explosives, etc. This has largely been the case for 200 plus years. If we ignore the some 200 years of jurisprudence supporting that ownership, then what?

Then we can reinterpret it to mean "human arms", as opposed to legs. I mean, the courts have the final say in what the US Constitution says, so just rattling off "the constitution says X!!!" like it means one thing but ignoring the years and years of case law meaning something else (and what's actually enforced) is just being naive.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#115

Post by int_19h »

knodi123 wrote: post #102
int_19h wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't require a lot of time nor resources. A 12 gauge zip gun is literally two steel tubes of the right diameter (can be found in most hardware store), and a tube cap with a hole that can have a bolt screwed in to serve as a firing pin. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wV3lmbSv4 Now, it is single-shot - but because they are so easy and cheap to make, someone who wanted to cause mayhem could…

I said time, motivation, and uncommon resources. As to the "uncommon resources" part- what percent of the people that you know have two steel tubes of the right diameter? I didn't say it was like securing refined plutonium for an A-bomb, but I stand by my statement that those resources are not common possessions. As to the time part - yes, absolutely, it does. Just because you've got craft skills does not mean they a…

My point is that it's not even hard, much less superhard. Sure, you won't have a couple of pipes of the right size just lying around - but all you need is a measuring tape to get the diameter of a shotgun shell, and then walking into the nearest Ace or Home Depot to get those. So I would argue that they are, effectively, "common possessions", in a sense that it is something that can be obtained with very little time and effort - comparable to grocery shopping.

And it doesn't require any specialized knowledge or skills at all - I couldn't fix my own sink, but I could make a working zip gun.

The reason why you don't see this happening a lot in practice is because it's easier to get a proper gun in US, and it's much more functional. But if you make that harder, you'll have to deal with this workaround suddenly becoming a lot more popular.

Speed bumps are a poor analogy, I think. They work, because their intended effect is localized - you put them where you want to avoid speeding because it's too dangerous. There's no similar locality in gun control.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#116

Post by int_19h »

Frondo wrote: post #99
hga wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because a lot of us don't want to let anyone know exactly when we'll take up arms, especially the more they have to lose and the more covert they might want to be about it. Me, I have a number of declared lines in the sand, the first and most obvious is required registration of all firearms. Although the kinds of enemy of the state I'd become is not so obvious, e.g. I won't start wacking government officials.…

Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Frankly speaking, I already don't trust the judgment of anyone who talks so casually about revolution as you've done here ("I have a number of declared lines in the sand"?????). I have far more confidence in the current system than anything that would emerge when the internet tough guys get together to try and take it do…

It's not unreasonable to have some lines in the sand, based on one's knowledge of history. For example, I could confidently say that genocide would be a line at which I would definitely consider armed resistance to a government that would perpetrate such a thing a moral imperative, even if I wasn't a target.

And it's not unreasonable for people to ponder such things when they look at history, see the parallels to today, and realize that they _could_ be targets. For example, I'd imagine that there are quite a few Muslims in US pondering these very questions right now.

It's the specific lines that some people state ("registration of all firearms", seriously?) that expose questionable judgment on their part. Or, alternatively, the lines can be reasonable, but their perception of reality is so skewed that they treat absolutely mundane things as crossing those lines in their mind. All the conspiracy theories around Jade Helm were a good example of that.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#117

Post by hga »

int_19h wrote: post #116
Frondo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Frankly speaking, I already don't trust the judgment of anyone who talks so casually about revolution as you've done here ("I have a number of declared lines in the sand"?????). I have far more confidence in the current system than anything that would emerge when the internet tough guys get together to try and take it do…

It's not unreasonable to have some lines in the sand, based on one's knowledge of history. For example, I could confidently say that genocide would be a line at which I would definitely consider armed resistance to a government that would perpetrate such a thing a moral imperative, even if I wasn't a target. And it's not unreasonable for people to ponder such things when they look at history, see the parallels to tod…

How are you going to engage in armed resistance in case of genocide if you've allowed yourself to get disarmed beforehand? You evidently don't know the pattern of registration being followed by disarmament followed sometimes by genocide, with the PRC being the major exception to this pattern (the CCP instead used rifle taxes imposed on the rich to dry up the supply of those not in their hands).

Even in the US mandatory registration has already led to confiscations in California and New York. And more of that will likely happen if enough of the coming "Gunpocalypse" gets enacted in California, although that might await a new governor, Jerry Brown is by no means all bad on this issue.

So you're just as welcome to question my judgement as I your knowledge of history, but neither is very productive when it comes to thinking about what various people will do if pushed too far.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#118

Post by dang »

hga wrote: post #109
Frondo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! You really want to go to war on your fellow Americans! So much for democracy, eh? Screw voting, let's kill those lefties, is what you're saying. "if you're on the Left/progressive, you should stop pushing the other half of the country so hard." So, because a bunch of folks on twitter talk about rape culture or because gay people can now marry their partners...line in the sand kind of thing? I mean, you won't dis…

No, Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen (TWANLOC) have been at war with my side for many decades, and things might be coming to a head. But I think the fact that my side is realizing we really are in a war, that we've been mostly losing outside of gun control (where our betters have been catastrophically losing outside of a few benighted states), and are starting to respond like in supporting Trump ... well, surel…

We've asked you before not to go on ideological tilt like this. Really, please don't. We'd ban most accounts that do this, but I really don't want to ban yours.

Any time one finds oneself typing things like "the Left is congenitally unable" (or "the Right", I don't care) into a Hacker News comment box, it is time to close Hacker News and not post.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#119

Post by Frondo »

int_19h wrote: post #116
Frondo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, and I don't want anyone like you judging when it is a good idea to overthrow the government. Frankly speaking, I already don't trust the judgment of anyone who talks so casually about revolution as you've done here ("I have a number of declared lines in the sand"?????). I have far more confidence in the current system than anything that would emerge when the internet tough guys get together to try and take it do…

It's not unreasonable to have some lines in the sand, based on one's knowledge of history. For example, I could confidently say that genocide would be a line at which I would definitely consider armed resistance to a government that would perpetrate such a thing a moral imperative, even if I wasn't a target. And it's not unreasonable for people to ponder such things when they look at history, see the parallels to tod…

Yeah, definitely. You're right, it's not nuts to entertain the thought experiment, "what would be too far for a government?" Genocide, sure, I like to think I'd stand up against that, and defend the people who were the target.

But yeah, either putting nutty things on that list (like firearms registration, as you said), or looking at the state of the country and thinking we're anywhere near the need to overthrow a government, that's what's concerning.

There's a therapy term, catastrophizing, which I think fits here. It's where you take some situation, imagine the worst thing that could happen from it, and assume that is already happening or is about to happen. Like firearms registration leading to, what? FEMA death camps? Enslavement by the Bilderberg group?

And that's the pattern you see in all these overthrow-the-gubmint kind of conversations: X (harmless) leads to Y (not likely) leads to Z (increasingly unlikely) leads to W (totally implausible) and that's why we need to start killing our fellow citizens at X.

It's scary, but at the same time not too scary, since a lot of this stuff just falls under the umbrella of internet-tough-guy talk.

Re: Cody Wilson, the man who wants Americans to 3D print their own guns

#120

Post by int_19h »

hga wrote: post #117
int_19h wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable to have some lines in the sand, based on one's knowledge of history. For example, I could confidently say that genocide would be a line at which I would definitely consider armed resistance to a government that would perpetrate such a thing a moral imperative, even if I wasn't a target. And it's not unreasonable for people to ponder such things when they look at history, see the parallels to tod…

How are you going to engage in armed resistance in case of genocide if you've allowed yourself to get disarmed beforehand? You evidently don't know the pattern of registration being followed by disarmament followed sometimes by genocide, with the PRC being the major exception to this pattern (the CCP instead used rifle taxes imposed on the rich to dry up the supply of those not in their hands). Even in the US mandato…

Gun registration and/or licensing does not inevitably lead to confiscation of all guns. It may lead to confiscation of some of them (as with semi-autos in Australia), but just looking at various countries which have some form of mandatory gun registration - which is most of them outside of US - they have extreme variability in other gun control measures; from legal ownership of "assault weapons" & normal-capacity magazines and concealed carry in Czech Republic, to near-blanket bans in some Asian countries.
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