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Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

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Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#111

Post by verytrivial »

throwaway049 wrote: post #89
gambiting wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don't forget that there are millions of people who have a car right now, but who wouldn't have a place to charge an electric car. People living in apartments, terraced houses, especially in the UK it's very common to see rows upon rows of houses, none of them with their own driveway.

We would probably solve that by putting up more charging points at the roadside (there are quite a few of these around already in the UK), with a card reader for payment or perhaps a payment chip within the car's charging connector.

I can't see people liking that. Charging at home works because you can sleep while it happens. Road side charging takes time away from some other part of your waking day. Wikipedia is saying 40 minutes for an 80% super charge for a Tesla. That's a sizable chunk of time to be loitering at some random location.

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#112

Post by ZeroGravitas »

dredmorbius wrote: post #38
pcr0 wrote: post #18

I'm all for electric vehicles, but there are a few things that have bothered me about its mass adoption. Right now, electrics comprise a tiny part of the automobile market share. Yet Tesla is already running into supply issues, particularly with lithium as there are only 3 companies in the world that do industrial-scale lithium mining, that too in a handful of mines around the world. Secondly, I suppose we're current…

This is a real problem and a real concern. An EV essentially is a car with a very expensive fuel tank (the battery), made out of specific materials and properties. While it is efficient in energy use and can make use of fungible electricity, lithium is rare, limited to specific areas of concentration, and can (as any material) only be partially recycled. There's lithium elsewhere on Earth, or more precisely, in seawa…

The saudi oil minister said that if everyone in the world had as many cars as the US, then they wouldn't have enough oil. So that's a very aggressive yardstick you're setting for EVs.

It would be much more sensible to electrify the cars/busses/trucks/delivery vans that are driven a lot, that are driven in stop-start traffic, and that are driven in heavily populated areas first. That gives you much more bang-per-buck in terms of pollution and CO2 reductions.

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#113

Post by ZeroGravitas »

calgoo wrote: post #97

What about making the battery packs "hot swappable". You pull into the station, the current pack is unloaded and a new one is loaded. I It can also have interesting effects on the battery upgrade you need to do every X amount of years. The packs could be owned by the gas station chain, so you can stop at any of their establishments and get a new one refiled. These battery pack charging stations could then also be use…

One of the founders of HTC is doing this for mopeds. With a much smaller battery, you just pull it out and carry it with you to the swapping station. Seems quite interesting:

https://www.wired.com/2016/01/electric-scooter-maker-gogoro-...

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#114

Post by Thlom »

skrause wrote: post #98
throwaway049 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would probably solve that by putting up more charging points at the roadside (there are quite a few of these around already in the UK), with a card reader for payment or perhaps a payment chip within the car's charging connector.

Where I live (in a dense German city) there wouldn't even be space at the roadside to install charging points; even the street lights are attachted to the houses because there was no space left. I have the same situation at work, so personally have a difficult time imagining to own an electric car anytime soon.

On the other hand,car ownership in dense urban areas shouldn't be the norm. The future is also in active transport (walking, cycling) and transit, not only electric cars.

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#115

Post by andruby »

calgoo wrote: post #97

What about making the battery packs "hot swappable". You pull into the station, the current pack is unloaded and a new one is loaded. I It can also have interesting effects on the battery upgrade you need to do every X amount of years. The packs could be owned by the gas station chain, so you can stop at any of their establishments and get a new one refiled. These battery pack charging stations could then also be use…

Shai Agassi tried that with Better Place. It raised about $850M and filed for bankruptcy after 6 years. Less than 1400 cars were using the 38 deployed swapping stations in Israel and Denmark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#116

Post by mantas »

dooptroop wrote: post #108
skrause wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live (in a dense German city) there wouldn't even be space at the roadside to install charging points; even the street lights are attachted to the houses because there was no space left. I have the same situation at work, so personally have a difficult time imagining to own an electric car anytime soon.

Where do the normal cars park?

By the side of the street. In between the street and pedestrians passage. Or between street and bicycle path. Sometimes diagonally.

The only possible charging would be some stuff that's underground and comes out of the ground right next to the car. Hopefully attaches to the bottom of the car, so there're no hoses/wires flinging around.

And some cars are parked at grey-legal spots blocking other cars. People just leave their phone numbers if someone needs to get out earlier. That is super common when you know people around and can expect to drive away sooner than your neighbour.

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#117

Post by mantas »

Thlom wrote: post #114
skrause wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live (in a dense German city) there wouldn't even be space at the roadside to install charging points; even the street lights are attachted to the houses because there was no space left. I have the same situation at work, so personally have a difficult time imagining to own an electric car anytime soon.

On the other hand,car ownership in dense urban areas shouldn't be the norm. The future is also in active transport (walking, cycling) and transit, not only electric cars.

So if you want a car for hobbies (e.g. getting to backcountry) or transporting your kids around, you shouldn't live in an urban area?

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#118

Post by TeMPOraL »

verytrivial wrote: post #111
throwaway049 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would probably solve that by putting up more charging points at the roadside (there are quite a few of these around already in the UK), with a card reader for payment or perhaps a payment chip within the car's charging connector.

I can't see people liking that. Charging at home works because you can sleep while it happens. Road side charging takes time away from some other part of your waking day. Wikipedia is saying 40 minutes for an 80% super charge for a Tesla. That's a sizable chunk of time to be loitering at some random location.

I think it would work fine. Parking meters exist for a reason - a lot of people park their cars on the street and go do whatever they came to do. You could upgrade the meters to also support payment for charging.

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#119

Post by votingprawn »

ebbv wrote: post #40
dghughes wrote: post #28

Forget the batteries look at the cost of replacing aluminum quarter panel which is welded on. For the Model S it's supposedly $15,000+ just for the part then fixed at a Tesla approved bodyshop. That's nuts! I did the math and for comparison on a $3 million Enzo Ferrari a hood (couldn't find a quarter panel) unpainted and used is about $10,000. http://www.ferrparts.com/en/usd/diagrams/front-hood-and-open... I like ele…

You're talking about a $60k+ (realistically probably more like $80k) vehicle. Aluminum body panels for luxury cars in that class have long been similarly priced. If you bought an all aluminum Audi A8 in 1999 for a similar price, you'd be in a similar situation. If you balk at that kind of repair bill, you shouldn't be considering a car in that price range. Your comparison of the used Ferrari hood is hardly applicable…

> In reality, Tesla is doing you a favor by making their body panels so expensive because that means it's easier for your car to get declared a total write off in an accident and you can get a new car

I think the chance of getting new value for your totalled car is pretty slim, unless it was written off in the first year or you're paying extra for GAP insurance.

My car got written off by an insurance company last year after someone drove into me. I ended up taking a settlement and getting the car fixed myself, there was no way their write off settlement would by me anything like the car I was about to lose. I also hate "throwing away" something mechanically sound over a few body panels, some panel beating, and some paint. And it is certainly not the 'green' choice either!

Re: Electric cars are no longer held back by crappy, expensive batteries

#120

Post by TeMPOraL »

mantas wrote: post #117
Thlom wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand,car ownership in dense urban areas shouldn't be the norm. The future is also in active transport (walking, cycling) and transit, not only electric cars.

So if you want a car for hobbies (e.g. getting to backcountry) or transporting your kids around, you shouldn't live in an urban area?

If you want a car for hobbies, you should figure out where to store it when you're not using it. Maybe rent a spot in an underground car park somewhere in the city. Public transport is just fine for transporting your kids around, and will be much better when there're less cars on the city roads.
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