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Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

theguardian.com

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Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#111

Post by jjawssd »

dionidium wrote: post #35
theseatoms wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how exactly did it work for you in your 20s? Did it help you realize that you didn't have problems?

Did it help you realize that you didn't have problems? Something like that. This is actually a pretty common sentiment. I know a lot of people who experimented with psychedelics in their 20s who in their 30s have said some variation of, "I don't think I'd want to do them now. I have too many things on my mind."

I completely agree with this as I am in the same boat!

But what people in their 30s really mean is they are unable to relax because they have so many more obligations and problems on their mind.

But believe me -- this problem is remedied by hanging out with good, positive people you trust and removing yourself from a stressful environment.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#112

Post by apo »

cryptoz wrote: post #69
apo wrote: post #62

From the study: > A logical next step would be to carry out a placebo controlled randomised trial in which the level of therapist contact is consistent between conditions. http://www.thelancet.com/pb/assets/raw/Lancet/pdfs/S22150366... Depression studies are subject to well-known, powerful placebo effects, rendering this study's conclusions next to useless: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidepr…

> next to useless No study or scientific curiosity is "next to useless". You are being intentionally antagonistic and there's no need for that. All research has to start somewhere, and this study is a significant start to this field. In no way is it or its conclusions "next to useless".

Maybe the brush was a bit broad.

However, studies interpreted more broadly than warranted can lead the unwary down deep, expensive, counterproductive dead ends. This happens all the time as the popular media get ahold stories, especially those relating to drug treatments and nutrition.

Consider the headline: "Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial."

That conclusion is out of line with the way in which the experiment was conducted, especially given the high tendency for large placebo effects in such studies. Without proper controls, the conclusion that magic mushrooms lift severe depression is next to useless.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#113

Post by jjawssd »

bashinator wrote: post #108
ifnaut wrote: post #96

I owe my entire successful career in science and mathematics to repeated use of LSD in my late teens/early 20's. It woke my desire to seek answers to the underlying mechanics of the universe. Before that, I was just a high school drop-out with low self-esteem, no direction, and no positive role models.

I have read that LSD can induce your brain into learning states similar to that of a baby, where new connections (and disconnections?) are able to be formed effortlessly. Given your experience, I wish there were more research being done. It could be another tool to help people overcome trauma or personality disorders.

This is definitely what it feels like at least.

A sense of raw novelty is evoked with our lack of understanding of the world around us becomes focused front and center.

Everything is beautiful in its own right. And the fractals in all of existence thoughts and visions run infinitely deep but we can almost grasp them.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#114

Post by jjawssd »

DigitalJack wrote: post #58
lawpoop wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in Johns Hopkins studies they were using amphetamines, and also they recruited people who were hallucinogenic-naive.

But then you'd have to do a study of amphetamines and depression. It's really tricky to come up with a sham effect in a placebo without destroying the integrity of the control group.

Can't you physically isolate the two groups somehow?

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#115

Post by soylentcola »

lawpoop wrote: post #19
hippich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what could be given as placebo tho. It is not like you do not notice you are tripping.

I think in Johns Hopkins studies they were using amphetamines, and also they recruited people who were hallucinogenic-naive.

From what I remember, they used methylphenidate (Ritalin) so the control group would "feel something" but, assuming that none of the participants had used either Ritalin or psilocybin before, they may not know the difference between Ritalin and low-dose psilocybin.

If I'm not mistaken, the psylocybin group wasn't given "tripping balls" dosages but rather more modest ones.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#116

Post by joslin01 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #80
joslin01 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true. I tell all my friends / family if you're going to do mushrooms for the first time, do them with me. I've seen the worst of trips and only my experience in knowing "I'm just high" kept me stable. Newcomers can't call on this experience so readily and will undoubtedly think they're the special exception that is going to die. I also have more advice for newcomer shroomers: one thought can spiral downward or u…

If you ever come to LA let's do it :-) Should add: Would meditation experience help? I feel that my experience helps me dealing with fearful situation. The fear is there but I can watch it and it doesn't define me.

I'll definitely hit you up on that -- I got friends in LA.

Yep meditation is yet another form of strengthening the resolution within yourself that you have power over your mind. Psychedelics show you this insofar as your effects are felt almost immediately -- this is why I said your thoughts can spiral up or down. Negative feelings must be taken responsibility for with one self and that is all. Even if you were burning at the stake, fear has no utility.

Fear is the ego's chief instrument in ensuring its command over your mind. Humans have not woken up yet to the deeper Life inside of them, and as a result feel victims, and as a result believe fear (and attack) is justified. Veiled in one action or another is the constant reminder that you will die, and it is this idol you serve when you are experiencing fear.

When one is completely silent in meditation, their identification is slowly dissolving from ego to Life. You are sinking into your mind and realizing more & more that your feelings come from your own valuations upon your projections. When this is recognized, the great game you play of devil & angel on each shoulder becomes meaningless and conflict (and thus fear) is dissolved with it. Yet to those who cling to their body for identification and purpose will have a sad life indeed for it is guaranteed to fail.

Now, if you really want to take it even further, I would explain that this world is not real but rather a dream of Hell that we have summoned after purposefully forgetting our creator ("biting the apple", "great fall") so we could be our creators in complete opposition to God. As a result, all fear is rooted in the fear of God and serves as witness that you are what you are not (you are life; you cannot be not life `A != !A`, but having infinite power you can will yourself to forget and live out a dream). Sleeping dreams are merely re-enactments of the great fall we took as one and you get to play out your egotistical desires & fears. In short, fear is never justified because of who you are and any value system with it as its underpinning is not to be trusted.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#117

Post by Torgo »

jjawssd wrote: post #111
dionidium wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it help you realize that you didn't have problems? Something like that. This is actually a pretty common sentiment. I know a lot of people who experimented with psychedelics in their 20s who in their 30s have said some variation of, "I don't think I'd want to do them now. I have too many things on my mind."

I completely agree with this as I am in the same boat! But what people in their 30s really mean is they are unable to relax because they have so many more obligations and problems on their mind. But believe me -- this problem is remedied by hanging out with good, positive people you trust and removing yourself from a stressful environment.

Nah, for me it's an admission that some things are now harder or impossible to reverse course on. You can't reverse time, and making dramatic changes to your life after you're settled with people depending on you has the potential to upset a lot more lives than your own.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#118

Post by atom-morgan »

bashinator wrote: post #108
ifnaut wrote: post #96

I owe my entire successful career in science and mathematics to repeated use of LSD in my late teens/early 20's. It woke my desire to seek answers to the underlying mechanics of the universe. Before that, I was just a high school drop-out with low self-esteem, no direction, and no positive role models.

I have read that LSD can induce your brain into learning states similar to that of a baby, where new connections (and disconnections?) are able to be formed effortlessly. Given your experience, I wish there were more research being done. It could be another tool to help people overcome trauma or personality disorders.

Yes, this is exactly how I'd describe it. I remember watching The Hobbit and being blown away. I felt like a kid all over again.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#119

Post by scarecrowbob »

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #15
Torgo wrote: post #3

It worked for me in my 20's, but I think if I tried it again in my late 30's, it might make things worse. Mushrooms don't let you hide problems from yourself.

Sounds like you are hiding more things in your life from yourself in the present than you did when you were younger

I've found that as I get older, I'm in positions where because I have a number of responsibilities to my child, partner, coworkers, and community I have to force myself to put various issues "off the table" for conscious thought.

These responsibilities often entail dealing with a great deal more ethical ambiguity and have far fewer simple answers.

In addition to that, over the years I've learned many new facts about the world which indicate that I'm not as nice or good a person as I had previously understood myself to be.

At least in my case as, I get older I feel have both fewer options and the world is more complex than I had thought it was when I was when I was younger.

So my assumption has been that saying "I don't need to deal with XYZ" is probably far more common as folks get older.

And this doesn't seem to be a bad strategy.

On one hand, most large issues either resolve themselves are outside of any person's actions. On the other hand, I may gain even further insight about things as I age.

So I think that "hiding more from ourselves as we age" is probably normal.

I sure as hell don't have the optimism to look at the world with a head full of acid at this point in my life-- it's a horrible shit show of violence and greed even when I'm sober, and every year the possibility of doing much about it via individual action becomes less tenable.

But who knows, maybe I'll age into having some clearer understandings that will leave me more optimistic as I move into my 40s and 50s. Or get better at ignoring the vast problems.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#120

Post by fluxquanta »

cnp wrote: post #86
fluxquanta wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever pot-culture words come up in "reporting" about medical treatments I immediately tune out. That's not to say there aren't any potential health benefits but "toking herb" (or whatever) isn't the best way to present them to people who still demonize it.

> That's not to say there aren't any potential health benefits but "toking herb" (or whatever) isn't the best way to present them to people who still demonize it > Whenever pot-culture words come up in "reporting" about medical treatments I immediately tune out Ever think that you're contributing to the problem? Just ignore the editorializing.

>Ever think that you're contributing to the problem?

How? The articles aren't for me. I'm fine with pot being legal for medical purposes or otherwise. The articles usually seemed to be aimed at (probably older) people who think marijuana is the devil's weed, and using stoner slang as part of an article to illustrate the positive side effects is counterproductive, in my opinion. Why does it matter if I ignore the article at that point?

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