Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#111

Post by rhino369 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

djschnei wrote: post #48

martinald wrote: post #15

In the UK we have the concept of "Section 106" payments which allow a development through planning by the developer paying the local government some amount of money to redress the cost of dealing with congestion, public relam, affordable housing, etc. For large skyscraper developments in London, this can be many many millions of pounds. Does something similar exist in CA?

Wow... outstanding haha. So in bringing more business to an area, they need to pay twice? At what point do people actually own the land they own?

>So in bringing more business to an area, they need to pay twice?

It's very possible for situation where whatever property tax the city gets isn't enough to cover the actual services a company requires. Fire, EMS, police, road construction, etc. This is especially true when the workers are mostly commuters. Then the workers don't pay local taxes either.

There are positive externalities like nearby restaurants and hotels with increased business.

Its really unfair to blame apple for it since they didn't make the rules.

But I think it would be fair to levy a "worker" tax that tries to raise revenue for teh city to service the thousands of employees who spend 8-12 hours a day in Cupertino but don't pay a cent in taxes.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#112

Post by twinkletwinkle » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #34

Lazare wrote: post #27

I can't believe Apple is wilfully not paying property taxes on their headquarters! That's quite illegal, and I'm sure... ...oh, they are paying their property taxes? I see. So which taxes, precisely, are they not paying the Cupertino government? Oh, there aren't any taxes, but you sort of wish someone with the authority to do so would pass a law making new taxes, but they won't, so you're mad at...Apple? 'k.

He isn't trying to make new taxes exactly, he just wants his $100 million. Apple's so big, they shouldn't mind parting with $100 mil for no good reason, right? It's not like they have responsibilities to shareholders or something.

You must not get it: they have money and he doesn't. They ought to give him the money.

This is a weird shill piece, why bother printing it?

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#113

Post by rhino369 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #36

dragontamer wrote: post #10

> At a recent Cupertino city council meeting, some residents protested about a lack of funding for public projects, Chang said – even crumpling up meeting agendas and throwing them. “They ball up the paper and throw it, and they say ‘You’re making all the wrong decisions’,” Chang said. “In the meantime Apple is not willing to pay a dime. They’re making profit, and they should share the responsibility for our city, bu…

If Apple is meant to pay a new tax based on their net income, then every business that operates in Cupertino should obviously pay the same tax. Let's see how that goes over.

This is sort of orthogonal, but certain types of businesses do get taxes on their net income in the form of sales tax. So Cupertino gets a cut of every sale that happens at a McDonalds in tehir border, but not a cut of the sales made possible by the workers in corporate buildings.

There isn't an easy solution (since Apple does get taxes in other jurisdictions based on sales).

But a lot of cities are frustrated that a bank branch provides little taxes while a mcdonalds in teh same spot would bring in a ton of taxes.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#114

Post by samstave » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

lewis500 wrote: post #73

This reporter is credulous, because the Guardian is just awful. "Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. “They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang." Uh huh. Yeah I bet it happened just like that. What buffoon of a reporter prints a politician's self-serving and inc…

How much for the hot-sauce.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#115

Post by linux_girl » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:33 PM UTC

"Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property.

“They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang, who’s been mayor since December 2015 and had approached the computing firm when he was serving on the city council three years ago."

I have a business in Sunnyvale, just about 1.5 miles from Apple Infinite Loop HQ. And I certainly wouldn't like it if Sunnyvale elected officials marched in uninvited. Goons from the city already march in once a year to see if my Compliance Notices are posted (Minimum Wage signs, some stupid sign about "If You Are Being Human Trafficked" and my business license--all for a 8 person software company.)

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#116

Post by lewis500 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #110

lewis500 wrote: post #73

This reporter is credulous, because the Guardian is just awful. "Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. “They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang." Uh huh. Yeah I bet it happened just like that. What buffoon of a reporter prints a politician's self-serving and inc…

Nit: Hillary Clinton is apparently an authentic fiend for hot sauce; she has a giant collection of them, takes it with her everywhere, and puts it on everything, including foods where it's kind of gross to eat with hot sauce.

lol. okay, today i learned. poor hillary.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#117

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

lewis500 wrote: post #73

This reporter is credulous, because the Guardian is just awful. "Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. “They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang." Uh huh. Yeah I bet it happened just like that. What buffoon of a reporter prints a politician's self-serving and inc…

Did you also notice that the way the Guardian wrote that paragraph makes it sound like Apple turned away the mayor, when in fact he was not the mayor at the time he went to Apple unannounced.

I cannot read that any other way except to intentionally mislead people for a greater impact on the story. I really hate this kind of journalism.

"The last time the mayor of Cupertino walked into Apple"

Yes, he is the current mayor since Dec 2015, but he was not when he "walked in to Apple."

From the article:

"“They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang, who’s been mayor since December 2015 and had approached the computing firm when he was serving on the city council three years ago."

He was on city council, he was not the mayor, when he went to Apple unannounced and was turned away. And I'm glad Apple turned him away -- why does he think he can show up anywhere unannounced just because of his title, be that mayor or city council member?

This is on top of this entire bullshit article, which as others have pointed out, says nothing about actual local/state taxes that Apple is not paying (because i'm sure they're probably in compliance). This article really comes down to "Mayor says life isn't fair, wants reparations."

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#118

Post by lewis500 » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

lewis500 wrote: post #73

This reporter is credulous, because the Guardian is just awful. "Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. “They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang." Uh huh. Yeah I bet it happened just like that. What buffoon of a reporter prints a politician's self-serving and inc…

Correction: there is evidence that Hillary is a big fan of hot sauce. No word yet on whether and how often it is in her bag. http://time.com/4297996/hillary-clinton-hot-sauce/

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#119

Post by Retric » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:42 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #89

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't entirely accurate. First, You can deduct foreign taxes paid, so $1B earned in the UK could would come back only in paying the difference of higher US and UK taxes. But tax systems in different countries are different, deductions are different, as are fees and such....it leads to a huge mess. The other hard thing to reason about is where the value was added. If the IP was developed in the states, technicall…

Corporations get a tax credit on taxes paid to foreign countries. This is where the U.S. nominal rate comes in. If it was about the same as other countries', then it would not be an impediment to repatriating profits. But at 35%, it's the highest in the world, so corps repatriating profits will indeed pay additional taxes to the U.S. government, even taking the foreign tax credits into account. That's why corps want…

The 'before deductions' part makes that 35% rate meaningless. A 10% tax on 10 billion is > than a 35% tax on 2 billion.

Corporate share of federal tax revenue has dropped by two-thirds in 60 years — from 32% in 1952 to 10% in 2013.

General Electric, Boeing, Verizon and 23 other profitable Fortune 500 firms paid no federal income taxes from 2008 to 2012.

Our average effective tax rate is 27.1% compared with 27.7% for the other 30 OECD countries, according to CRS.

http://staging.americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-brie...

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41743.pdf

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#120

Post by goldbrick » Thu, May 05, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #92

goldbrick wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trivial at all, just mostly invisible and most of us who've only known modern western societies never give it a second thought.

Try again. Law enforcement was just 9% of the Cupertino municipal budget in 2015. http://www.cupertino.org/index.aspx?page=1222 What fraction of that do you want to bet has anything to do with protecting private property, as opposed to the large revenue generating activities like parking tickets?

Like I said, completely invisible to you.