Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#111

Post by striking » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:09 AM UTC

Nitramp wrote: post #108

cb18 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite popular belief, simple possession laws ARE upheld in Canada, but the people charged are disproportionately minorities and poor/homeless people. It's quite likely that those are compound charges, meaning possession is not the only charge, i.e. they are arrested for something else, then found to be in possession. So they are charged disproportionately because they commit crimes disproportionately,[0] and some o…

Not sure about Canada, but the whole story usually is that people with lower social class/backgrounds commit crimes more often, and that aboriginals/black people/foreigners/... etc are overrepresented in that group. Once you control for social status, there is no difference between white or non-white populations.

Can I get a link to something that confirms this? I'd like to be able to use this point in conversation.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#112

Post by striking » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:13 AM UTC

JamilD wrote: post #82

andrewstuart wrote: post #58

In Australia "the Victorian government, is introducing laws in December to allow families access to medicinal cannabis in exceptional circumstances. " You have to be genuinely, deeply sick in Australia to be allowed to puff a joint. It's like living in the 1950's. So strange that Australia follows the world so quickly towards becoming more conservative and is so incredibly slow to become less conservative, even when…

California started off that way, and now you can get your marijuana rec online. Medical marijuana is always the first step to more widespread acceptance.

Would you say it's a... gateway drug?

Badum-tish.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#113

Post by kobayashi » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:19 AM UTC

a3n wrote: post #107

kobayashi wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah, but if you decriminalize possession it's a boon for the (still) illegal dealers and distributors. Is there any credible data to discredit my take on this?

If we have to keep putting civilians in jail so that criminals don't benefit for a brief time, I think that thought should be rethunk.

Well, as I mention in another comment [0], I'm uncertain as to whether the prospective bill will actually pass, and thus the "interim" situation could become the ongoing status quo. Additionally, such a situation would also include all the geopolitical risks I mention in that other comment, too, and could thus put the Canadian economy in peril.

I'm a supporter of legalization, but I think half-measures can lead to avoidable, unforeseen negative consequences.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11538708

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#114

Post by kobayashi » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:22 AM UTC

indlebe wrote: post #98

kobayashi wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah, but if you decriminalize possession it's a boon for the (still) illegal dealers and distributors. Is there any credible data to discredit my take on this?

Do you think decriminalizing for possessing a small amount in the interim would still fuel crime?

Well, 10 grams isn't that small (though certainly not large), and retails for about 100 CAD. So, if people become more likely to smoke up once it's decriminalized, then it would seem to me that it would provide a windfall for the sellers, distributors, and producers. I have no hard evidence to support this belief - it's just a supposition that seems to me to be reasonable and logical.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#115

Post by cb18 » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:23 AM UTC

Nitramp wrote: post #108

cb18 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite popular belief, simple possession laws ARE upheld in Canada, but the people charged are disproportionately minorities and poor/homeless people. It's quite likely that those are compound charges, meaning possession is not the only charge, i.e. they are arrested for something else, then found to be in possession. So they are charged disproportionately because they commit crimes disproportionately,[0] and some o…

Not sure about Canada, but the whole story usually is that people with lower social class/backgrounds commit crimes more often, and that aboriginals/black people/foreigners/... etc are overrepresented in that group. Once you control for social status, there is no difference between white or non-white populations.

In the US there are groups of poor whites and poor blacks, the crime rates are not the same, they exhibit stark differences.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#116

Post by golergka » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:26 AM UTC

cb18 wrote: post #115

Nitramp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about Canada, but the whole story usually is that people with lower social class/backgrounds commit crimes more often, and that aboriginals/black people/foreigners/... etc are overrepresented in that group. Once you control for social status, there is no difference between white or non-white populations.

In the US there are groups of poor whites and poor blacks, the crime rates are not the same, they exhibit stark differences.

What if you account for rural/urban populations? Population density always has an effect on crime rate

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#117

Post by chrisweekly » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:31 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #49

allisthemoist wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, regulated in a way that is very close to how alcohol is currently sold in Ontario.

The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison. So I'm curious what effect this will have on prices. Because if pricing is anything like alcohol in Ontario then there will still be a lively black market and, if legalized, a personal-growing boom. In Ontario alcohol can only be bought at two governm…

> "The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison."

wat? my friend, i fear you have overlooked modern homebrewing; world-class beer is being made in peoples' kitchens / basements / garages all over the place. :)

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#118

Post by bickfordb » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:44 AM UTC

brebla wrote: post #7

How does this effect the supply chain? Let me re-phrase that, are we still criminalizing the supply side? If so, we're just exporting our violence south of the USA border.

I don't know about the Canadian proposal, but in Colorado, Oregon and Washington, all recreational sales go through a government controlled agricultural pipeline (not Mexico).

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#119

Post by chris_wot » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:47 AM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #63

llamataboot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.civilized.life/despite-treaties-justin-trudeau-c...

So basically a country can pull out of a bad treaty and all they're going to get is some strongly worded letters? Hopefully once Canada and others defy these terrible agreements, poorer countries will realise they have a lot to gain by ignoring them, too.

These things are never so simple. If a country pulls this sort of thing too often, then negotiations with other nations (especially the one whose treaty you pulled out of) will necessarily be much less willing to negotiate new treaties with them.

Treaties are more than just trade, they also signify a strong relationship between nations because the nations who negotiate treaties are signalling that they are willing to cooperate in a constructive fashion with that other nation, and that they want to maintain a peaceful relationship with the other nation.

It is far, far better never to sign up to a treaty that is "bad" (normally a power imbalance) than it is to sign up to one, and then pull out of it.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#120

Post by mistermann » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:50 AM UTC

OldSchoolJohnny wrote: post #78

dmix wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference is that quality marijuana can be grown indoors for personal consumption, whereas it's very difficult to make a quality whiskey or beer by comparison. So I'm curious what effect this will have on prices. Because if pricing is anything like alcohol in Ontario then there will still be a lively black market and, if legalized, a personal-growing boom. In Ontario alcohol can only be bought at two governm…

Speaking as someone with experience and friends who do both I can assure you it's far easier to make quality beer than it is to learn all the ins and outs of growing quality cannabis. You have it exactly backwards.

Is potency a significant portion of "quality", in which case you could just smoke twice as much? Or is the effects different if you don't do it properly?