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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#111

Post by whack »

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to disperse to other mini-hubs, due to lack of capacity in San Francisco.

20 years on, San Francisco could have become what New York City is today. One of the top 5 cities in the world, and the undisputed hub where all of technology resides. Instead, it's on track to be just another major city, in the same league as countless others like Chicago/Seattle/Boston.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#112

Post by dkopi »

maxsilver wrote: post #91
dkopi wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't judge pricing in a market that's very restrictive. Sprinkling a few higher density buildings in area with rapidly growing demand isn't going to be enough to lower prices.

What about markets with no restrictions. Because this same behavior is seen there too, even in small cities in the south or Midwest. Even in cities that let developers do anything they want, anytime they want to.

Its very likely that a newer apartment would be priced higher than an older apartment. But that doesn't mean new apartments don't have an aggregate effect on the prices of other apartments.

http://cityobservatory.org/in-some-cities-the-housing-constr...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#113

Post by TylerH »

dionidium wrote: post #45
sliverstorm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So consider a nice, quaint neighborhood. Person A lives there. Person B wants to live there too, because it is so nice. Ok, let's say we double supply. All the houses are now either twice as high, or half as big, or maybe the trees were cut down and the bushes ripped out to make room. There's twice as many people & everything therein. Is it still the same nice neighborhood?

You're right, of course, but this sentiment amounts to little more than stomping your feet and wishing the world were different. As long as there is high demand, you can either build more or expect higher prices and more sprawl. I get that people don't like those choices, but that's what's on the table.

Or you can do neither. It's not like the false dichotomy you're presenting is true.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#114

Post by funkaster »

bogomipz wrote: post #89
Gratsby wrote: post #54

I pay about that for rent - it's the most I've ever paid for housing by a long shot, and it regularly freaks me out. I just can't get used to it. The thing that gets me is that I'm barely paying the property taxes on the place I rent. The landlord isn't gouging me. It's just the way it is here. Housing is so expensive because everyone wants to be here, and for good reason. This is the most thriving technical communit…

Really - "This is the most thriving technical community in the entire world"? I'm calling BS. Have you been to New York City recently? Rents for a 1 bedroom are nowhere near that. Lets talk about that community - there are meetups? Wow. You can go to a meetup on any night of the week in New York or Austin. Besides that explain "the community"? Oh you go out and drink craft beers after work? You can do that anywhere.…

I live in SF and 100% agree with you. There's nothing in SF that you can't find in some other place. I do like living here, but I don't see myself living here longer than a few years.

If I had to start my own tech company, I would probably have the exec team here (because of VCs, really, that's the only reason, not a "tech thriving community") and build my team in EU, maybe Berlin.

We're currently hiring at my job and it's getting harder and harder to get high quality candidates.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#115

Post by maerF0x0 »

davidw wrote: post #71
maerF0x0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High local prices can be addressed with "distributed sprawl". ie growth in other cities.

I think the problem with that logic is that the people at the 'top of the heap' - VC's, CEO's and the like are not the ones being priced out, mostly. Granted, a company might open an office somewhere else, but that's after it's already large and established. So you're kicking the marginal (in the economic sense) people out into marginal places where they have less access to what made the original area such a great pl…

maybe, i have neither a moral stance nor suggested solution for that. Seems to me that is a trait of capitalism/market economies; those who can pay the most get what they want.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#116

Post by msutherl »

bogomipz wrote: post #89
Gratsby wrote: post #54

I pay about that for rent - it's the most I've ever paid for housing by a long shot, and it regularly freaks me out. I just can't get used to it. The thing that gets me is that I'm barely paying the property taxes on the place I rent. The landlord isn't gouging me. It's just the way it is here. Housing is so expensive because everyone wants to be here, and for good reason. This is the most thriving technical communit…

Really - "This is the most thriving technical community in the entire world"? I'm calling BS. Have you been to New York City recently? Rents for a 1 bedroom are nowhere near that. Lets talk about that community - there are meetups? Wow. You can go to a meetup on any night of the week in New York or Austin. Besides that explain "the community"? Oh you go out and drink craft beers after work? You can do that anywhere.…

Perhaps if you are an engineer this perspective entirely makes sense, but if you're an investor, entrepreneur, or in any other occupation where 'the ecosystem' matters, you'll find that nothing compares to the Bay Area.

This isn't about going to a meetup or going out for craft beer, it's about access to resources behind closed (unlocked) doors.

But listen, I used to live in New York and there's a lot there too – just less, and a different vibe. The decision between living in New York or San Francisco should really come down to your particular interests.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#117

Post by malchow »

Gratsby wrote: post #54

I pay about that for rent - it's the most I've ever paid for housing by a long shot, and it regularly freaks me out. I just can't get used to it. The thing that gets me is that I'm barely paying the property taxes on the place I rent. The landlord isn't gouging me. It's just the way it is here. Housing is so expensive because everyone wants to be here, and for good reason. This is the most thriving technical communit…

Rents are where they are because of state and local governmental policy. I beg you to go out and find a real estate investor to talk to.

In any city in the world with a functioning open market for land use, there are compelling profit opportunities in high-density high-rises, economy box living pods with beige walls, high-end glass condos with verandahs, and everything in between.

Prices do not have to do with the Bay Area's beauty. The draw is economic. And if policies do not moderate, it is a draw which can go away as quickly as it arrived.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#118

Post by lettergram »

whack wrote: post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

I have to say... I'm already nervous in my 3 story building when there is a earthquake. I'd be even more nervous around buildings, when I know the ground is basically sand.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#119

Post by sp332 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #31
dkopi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market. Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

So consider a nice, quaint neighborhood. Person A lives there. Person B wants to live there too, because it is so nice. Ok, let's say we double supply. All the houses are now either twice as high, or half as big, or maybe the trees were cut down and the bushes ripped out to make room. There's twice as many people & everything therein. Is it still the same nice neighborhood?

Let's say your city has a massive homeless population, and increasing rents are making it difficult for long-time residents to make a living. Now make the buildings twice as high - it's a lot nicer now, isn't it?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#120

Post by stuxnet79 »

dv0rak wrote: post #107

Fuck. And I thought paying $1k a month in Toronto was too much. I've been looking for work in cheaper cities like Hamilton or London literally because what I make versus what it takes to survive don't sit well with me - and never have.

Oh cool, another Toronto developer!! I never see a lot in HN. Are you working for a startup? Also, why Hamilton or London? Have you tried looking for jobs in the Kitchener / Waterloo area? There are a lot of nice startups there as well as established companies. My friend recently got a job there at a bank.
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