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What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

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Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#111

Post by sokoloff »

1stop wrote: post #93
interfixus wrote: post #88

I live in Denmark. As do around 5.7 million others, all told. We have no death penalty. In 2015 we had 41 cases of homicide. It can be done.

Denmark doesn't exactly have the cultural baggage the US has. There isn't a gun culture* (just picking one aspect) at all in Denmark, there is a rich culture in the US to the point that people think you are changing the identity of the country if you reform gun law. Stating that a progressive state that never had such problems can solve them has no meaning. * guns would be the leading cause of homicide in the US.

Leading mechanism, not cause, IMO.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#112

Post by koenigdavidmj »

zo1 wrote: post #110
rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as no state. For any conflict, whoever wins is the de facto state.

I think you'd get disagreements from both sides of the fence on that definition of a state.

All of the theories of who is a state or not fail as soon as real geopolitics is involved.

Taiwan is not a state in the eyes of the US simply because China wouldn't play nicely if we said otherwise.

Saudi Arabia during its formation in the early 1900s would have been indistinguishable from the ISIS of today.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#113

Post by Grishnakh »

joering2 wrote: post #62
the_ancient wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>I'm not against the Death Penalty on general principle grounds You should be... When you kill someone outside the conditions of self defense that is murder and is immoral. I do not care if the government doing it as some kind of "punishment" or a person doing it for another reason, murder is murder, "capital punishment" is murder. If we want a peaceful, just and free society, it can not include capital punishment.…

Frankly, I don't even understand what's the purpose of capital punishment? It is not to punish someone -- they are already dead, so they can't feel the punishment It is not to set an example -- its been proven over and over again - when people are ready or commit crime, the last thing they think of is that they will get caught or get punished. That's why death penalty does not stop people from committing heinous crim…

If you used a time machine to bring some people from a 1600s English colony here in America to the present time, they would think our punishments are cruel and unusual. To them, prison itself was cruel and unusual punishment, so they didn't have them: they just executed people or did other harsh, but quick punishments, depending on the crime. To them, it was far more merciful to execute someone than to stick them in a prison cell for years and years. (They did have jails, though, but only for people awaiting trial.)

So any time I see someone criticizing the death penalty as "uncivilized", I think it's a bit silly because there have been whole cultures that completely disagreed.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#114

Post by yrro »

jeevand wrote: post #82

I understand that US justice system is completely biased against minorities (Mainly blacks) but i can't completely come to terms with total abolition of death penalty as expressed by many here on HN. Here are few incidents where i think death penalty can be justified (examples are from Norway which has abolished death penalty & India where it is very rarely carried out - only 5 from 1995) https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

A reformed Breivik, once released, would be able to do some good by working against his former cause, speaking to prevent others from following down the path that he took.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#115

Post by joering2 »

Grishnakh wrote: post #113
joering2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I don't even understand what's the purpose of capital punishment? It is not to punish someone -- they are already dead, so they can't feel the punishment It is not to set an example -- its been proven over and over again - when people are ready or commit crime, the last thing they think of is that they will get caught or get punished. That's why death penalty does not stop people from committing heinous crim…

If you used a time machine to bring some people from a 1600s English colony here in America to the present time, they would think our punishments are cruel and unusual. To them, prison itself was cruel and unusual punishment, so they didn't have them: they just executed people or did other harsh, but quick punishments, depending on the crime. To them, it was far more merciful to execute someone than to stick them in…

okay so taking your logic forward, I dont get it why we need houses, forks and cars? We used to be just fine living in caves, using stones to chase and crash each other skulls for food, and we been fine riding horses too!

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#116

Post by Grishnakh »

joering2 wrote: post #115
Grishnakh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used a time machine to bring some people from a 1600s English colony here in America to the present time, they would think our punishments are cruel and unusual. To them, prison itself was cruel and unusual punishment, so they didn't have them: they just executed people or did other harsh, but quick punishments, depending on the crime. To them, it was far more merciful to execute someone than to stick them in…

okay so taking your logic forward, I dont get it why we need houses, forks and cars? We used to be just fine living in caves, using stones to chase and crash each other skulls for food, and we been fine riding horses too!

So you think prison really isn't all that awful then? And that everyone who tries to simply commit suicide instead of spending their life in prison must have "mental problems"?

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#117

Post by 1stop »

sokoloff wrote: post #111
1stop wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark doesn't exactly have the cultural baggage the US has. There isn't a gun culture* (just picking one aspect) at all in Denmark, there is a rich culture in the US to the point that people think you are changing the identity of the country if you reform gun law. Stating that a progressive state that never had such problems can solve them has no meaning. * guns would be the leading cause of homicide in the US.

Leading mechanism, not cause, IMO.

Is there any real difference?

Like a trigger is a leading mechanism, but it's the combustion that fires the bullet?

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#118

Post by sokoloff »

1stop wrote: post #117
sokoloff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leading mechanism, not cause, IMO.

Is there any real difference? Like a trigger is a leading mechanism, but it's the combustion that fires the bullet?

The cause (IMO) is a human who lacks self-control, anger-management, moral compass, or is otherwise broken in a way that causes/allows them to intentionally take the life of a fellow human.

The gun/trigger/bullet/gunpowder/whatever is a mechanism of the murder, not the cause. (I'm not a rabid "gun nut" [nor even a gun owner], but blaming guns as the cause is just as fundamentally misplaced as blaming a baseball bat, knife, or rope, IMO.)

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#119

Post by 1stop »

sokoloff wrote: post #118
1stop wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any real difference? Like a trigger is a leading mechanism, but it's the combustion that fires the bullet?

The cause (IMO) is a human who lacks self-control, anger-management, moral compass, or is otherwise broken in a way that causes/allows them to intentionally take the life of a fellow human. The gun/trigger/bullet/gunpowder/whatever is a mechanism of the murder, not the cause. (I'm not a rabid "gun nut" [nor even a gun owner], but blaming guns as the cause is just as fundamentally misplaced as blaming a baseball bat,…

But the facts don't reflect what you are saying.

Removal of guns from a society lowers total murders, it doesn't just move those murders to some other weapon/cause.

Look at Australia's crime statistics, or Canada, or Britain before and after serious gun control. They all show this to be true.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#120

Post by [deleted] »

sokoloff wrote: post #118
1stop wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any real difference? Like a trigger is a leading mechanism, but it's the combustion that fires the bullet?

The cause (IMO) is a human who lacks self-control, anger-management, moral compass, or is otherwise broken in a way that causes/allows them to intentionally take the life of a fellow human. The gun/trigger/bullet/gunpowder/whatever is a mechanism of the murder, not the cause. (I'm not a rabid "gun nut" [nor even a gun owner], but blaming guns as the cause is just as fundamentally misplaced as blaming a baseball bat,…

[deleted]
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