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Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

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Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#111

Post by jimbokun »

gkya wrote: post #78
gokhan wrote: post #35

These days, most forms of criticism of Erdogan is forbidden in Turkey. During the past 14 years, he and his party turned a barely standing democracy with imperfect rules into a semi-dictatorian state with no rules. Police force fully belongs to him and you can derive many similarities with Hitler's early 1930's. There are no mainstream press left daring to oppose him, no prosecutor can question him for his unconstitu…

Erdogan is not an idiot for trying to censor German press. He does know that that won't ever happen because he wanted. But most the voters of his party will be excited to see him shouting at the Germany, the US, etc. This is not that obvious to the opposition. I came to know some supporters only recently, and boy, they have arousals when the guy acts like this. I'm a Turkish citizen BTW. And see, criticism of Erdogan…

A preview of what's in store if the U.S. somehow manages to elect Trump.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#112

Post by treehau5 »

tomp wrote: post #52
matt4077 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just goes to show that politics is really really hard. You never get to hear about the decisions that are easy. If it's reported in the media, it's almost by definition an issue with multiple viable options (or, in this case, only bad choices). Having seen a bit of German politics from the inside, I can assure you that everyone grapples with choices like this. I've witnessed ministers of finance changing their opi…

For all intents and purposes, Turks are white (i.e. the same race as the rest of Europe). The issue, however, is religion. EU has enough problems as is with religion (less than the US, and less than it used to have, but still), but still people are wary. Although IIRC Turkey used to be less religious than it is now, under Erdogan.

The "race" of Europe, if you could categorize it into such broad terms, would be better suited as "Western", "Eastern", and "Mediterranean", but even that isn't apt.

For most Turks, you couldn't tell the difference between them and Iranians, IMO. Nonetheless, you can definitely tell them apart from a Western white European, a Eastern Slavic-Rus European, and a Mediterranean European.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#113

Post by aluhut »

Funny how this seems to be the first thing in the refugee crisis that reunites the right and left-wing bandwagons. Even if the right-wing wagon should support Erdogan but they can't since he's turkish/muslim/whatever.

Böhmermann killed that freedom today with his song though ;)

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#114

Post by tomp »

pluma wrote: post #87
tomp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all intents and purposes, Turks are white (i.e. the same race as the rest of Europe). The issue, however, is religion. EU has enough problems as is with religion (less than the US, and less than it used to have, but still), but still people are wary. Although IIRC Turkey used to be less religious than it is now, under Erdogan.

Racism in Germany is not the same as racism in the US or necessarily other parts of the EU. "Südländer" ("people from Southern countries") are effectively treated as an ethnic group, although this includes Italians and Spaniards alongside Turks (but in some cases also Arabs and other non-"whites"). There's also the racist slur "Ölauge" ("oil-eye"), which while ostensibly about eye colour is typically used to refer to…

I'm guessing a better word for this would be "xenophobia".

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#115

Post by gkya »

jimbokun wrote: post #111
gkya wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erdogan is not an idiot for trying to censor German press. He does know that that won't ever happen because he wanted. But most the voters of his party will be excited to see him shouting at the Germany, the US, etc. This is not that obvious to the opposition. I came to know some supporters only recently, and boy, they have arousals when the guy acts like this. I'm a Turkish citizen BTW. And see, criticism of Erdogan…

A preview of what's in store if the U.S. somehow manages to elect Trump.

Rather, a thumbnail. The US actually does have the power to f*ck the world up, unlike our guy, who can only aspire to do so.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#116

Post by kuschku »

elcapitan wrote: post #92
taejo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, this right is established by a treaty between the German states, rather than by a law of the federal government.

So there's basically a media bureaucracy that can decide how much money it wants to earn, without asking any customers. Awesome!

But they can not decide their own wages, can not carry profits from one year into the other, and can not hoard excess money.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#117

Post by dracht »

cm3 wrote: post #56
Udo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I feel more attached to Germany, to be honest As a fellow German, it's encouraging to hear that immigrants sometimes still feel they can identify with Germany as their new country, despite all the obvious hurdles. My ex girlfriend's parents moved back to Turkey recently after spending pretty much their entire working lives in Germany, which got me thinking a lot. They said their primary reasons were that t…

That's because Turks are treated in Germany the same way Moroccans are in Netherlands. Both parties are to blame, but no matter what a Turk does, it will at least be another 50 years before they're accepted as Germans. Just look at the German media. When somebody with a migration background would get some award, they're quick to point out (s)he is from Germany, hiding the background. But when (s)he does something peo…

>That's because Turks are treated in Germany the same way Moroccans are in Netherlands.

Despite being here for decades they have made no effort to assimilate, in contrast to some other groups. 40% (!) of Moroccan youths has a criminal record. They speak poor Dutch. They don't consider themselves Dutch. Let us not pretend the effect was the cause.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#118

Post by sydneysider »

tomp wrote: post #114
pluma wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism in Germany is not the same as racism in the US or necessarily other parts of the EU. "Südländer" ("people from Southern countries") are effectively treated as an ethnic group, although this includes Italians and Spaniards alongside Turks (but in some cases also Arabs and other non-"whites"). There's also the racist slur "Ölauge" ("oil-eye"), which while ostensibly about eye colour is typically used to refer to…

I'm guessing a better word for this would be "xenophobia".

wheres the phobia?

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#119

Post by ousta »

elthran wrote: post #15
meric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin is quite the authoritarian, yet I don't think you can compare Erdogan to Putin. They are not even on the same level.

I agree they're not on the same level - but I think this is more Putin have a superior intellect and grasp of subtlety and Realpolitik than Erdogan. I'm fully expecting Putin to pull the old President/Prime Minister switcheroo again in 2024, after winning the 2018 election.

you clearly underestimate the man. erdogan is a brilliant politician probably the greatest of our generation with putin and do not worry he does not need europe. actually joining europe will be bad for turkey on so much levels that it does not make sense

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#120

Post by Crespyl »

ousta wrote: post #105
tim333 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany Holocaust denial is illegal and you can get imprisoned for it. In Turkey it is required to deny the Armenian Genocide where the Turks killed a million or so Armenians, an act the word genocide was invented to describe. In Turkey you can get imprisoned for saying it happened. That's a fairly major incompatibility to deal with.

you can deny holocaust in many european countries...

Those countries do not have a state-enforced opposition to historical facts.
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