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For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

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Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#111

Post by draw_down »

timbofoo wrote: post #66
kafkaesq wrote: post #5

So, how did you get to where you are today? I’ve always been passionate about coding, starting from my early days at Olympiad teams in high school and ACM teams in college. Anyone who's made it onto an Olympiad team[1] of any significant geographical scale, in any category, shouldn't have to deal with this whiteboard nonsense. Maybe a few lightweight-to-medium rounds to verify that they are what they say they are. Bu…

I see the whiteboard coding test as an attitude-test. If you have too much attitude to sit down and write some code for an hour, then you aren't someone I want in my company. It shouldn't be hard if you're skilled. Sorry to be that way, but that's the way I (and we) see it.

That cuts both ways, hombre. If you're not willing to think about the serious problems with conducting interviews that way, I don't wanna work with you either.

Plus you literally just came out and admitted that it's not actually about measuring technical skill, it's some run-you-through-the-gauntlet "attitude" bullshit. Gimme a break.

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#112

Post by teffen »

craigyk wrote: post #15
pklausler wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your interviewer really dings you for the appearance of your scrawled code on the wall, they're being self-defeatingly stupid and you'd probably be happier working with other people. I do lots of tech interviews, and I always make it clear that I don't care how pretty the ink looks. I stick with the whiteboard because it's the best way for candidates to explain their analyses and algorithms before they write the c…

My Google interview in 2008, one guy asked me to write a binary tree structure and implementations of depth and breadth-first search (maybe also balanced insert?) on the whiteboard in C, which I blew through in no time. He then immediately said it was wrong and let me wither for a few minutes trying to figure out what the problem was before pointing out I forgot a semicolon.

You could've played their game to make a point.

"Ah, no wonder it didn't work!"

Then draw out an IDE around the code with a big [Compile] button.

Maybe even Clippy in the corner of the whiteboard. "It looks like you're trying to get a job..."

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#114

Post by hotcool »

deftnerd wrote: post #89

The current state of the hiring process in tech companies has really affected me. I'm, by nature, a very shy person who doesn't deal with rejection very well. Because of this, I tend to apply at jobs where my hiring is a slam-dunk because it's so routine and easily within my skill-set. It results in jobs that aren't particularly fulfilling but gives me plenty of time to work on technology I'm interested in my spare t…

There is a game for rejection that's definitely worth checking out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1754790

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#115

Post by ktRolster »

dmoy wrote: post #81
ktRolster wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that just happened to me this week. I'm sitting here wondering what I said wrong in my reply email. Was I not enthusiastic enough? What was it?

You should get a reply; it is possible the recruiter is no longer working there, or something else. Or maybe they're just being slow. Some more info: https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Google-recruiting-take-as-lon... Also down with kt, long live cj. :(

lol despite my username, I'm more of an MVP fan. <3 Taeja, HerO, Life!

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#116

Post by soham »

deftnerd wrote: post #89

The current state of the hiring process in tech companies has really affected me. I'm, by nature, a very shy person who doesn't deal with rejection very well. Because of this, I tend to apply at jobs where my hiring is a slam-dunk because it's so routine and easily within my skill-set. It results in jobs that aren't particularly fulfilling but gives me plenty of time to work on technology I'm interested in my spare t…

There is only one way to toughen up: Practice. Be it interviews or sports. Be it negotiations or cooking. Practice and practice perfectly.

1. Take mock interviews from experienced engineers

Go one topic at a time e.g. Recursion or Trees or DP or Multithreading etc. Before you walk into the interview, practice well. Do at least 20 problems on that topic, if not more.

2. Do practice interviews at companies you don't want to work for

Don't feel an imposter in doing this. Realize that companies also go thru several candidates before they pick one. They are normal people like you, they have a learning curve to fill the position, and so do you. Finding the right company, at the right stage of your life, is not a trivial thing to do; it's a project and needs to be managed like that.

Going thru various interviews hardens your skills of negotiation, your understanding of business models, and more importantly, gives you clarity about what your strengths and limitations are.

3. Practice the right mindset

Never go to interviews with a loaded agony of getting a job. Go simply with the intent of solving interesting problems with interesting people ("to add life to your character"). Nobody explains this better than Bryan Cranston (possibly one of the most successful TV actors of recent times): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WiCGq-PcY

I make these observations based on my experience running a successful bootcamp for interview prep (http://interviewkickstart.com) and also being an early engineer and a hiring manager (Director of engineering) at Box prior to that.

[Edit: specifically mentioned Bryan Cranston by name, based on the comment below]

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#117

Post by copperx »

pklausler wrote: post #90
yitchelle wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of my interviewers told me that my answer was completely wrong just to see how I would take the criticism. I do this sometimes. A strong developer would have a good mix of defending the design decisions made and the acceptance of the errors made. This test should bring this characteristic to the forefront.

I think that lying to a candidate is unethical and unfair. You can get similar results without crossing that line by asking questions like "can this be made faster?" and "is this correct?", soliciting proofs of lower bounds on asymptotic complexity and loop invariants (respectively). But you shouldn't tell a candidate that their code is broken when it isn't. Interviewing is stressful and scary -- don't make it worse…

> soliciting proofs of lower bounds on asymptotic complexity

A mathematical proof on the lower bound? is that a common request and something I should prepare for in an interview?

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#118

Post by kenrikm »

EliRivers wrote: post #98
deftnerd wrote: post #89

The current state of the hiring process in tech companies has really affected me. I'm, by nature, a very shy person who doesn't deal with rejection very well. Because of this, I tend to apply at jobs where my hiring is a slam-dunk because it's so routine and easily within my skill-set. It results in jobs that aren't particularly fulfilling but gives me plenty of time to work on technology I'm interested in my spare t…

Apply for jobs you've no intention of taking if offered. Use them as practice. Use them to toughen up. Knowing in advance that it doesn't matter, and that you'll never see or hear from the people involved ever again, and that the final outcome - that nothing will change and you're risking nothing - might be liberating enough that you can do it.

This is actually kind of a bad thing to do, since you're intentionally wasting other people's time.

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#119

Post by mstrem »

lqdc13 wrote: post #110
mstrem wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat agree with your statement. Mainly because I personally put a LOT of effort into each job application and I would not be able to apply to more than 2-3 jobs a week. Takes time to find the right company, do research, make a perfect personalized application etc. As a result to that pretty much all applications I have ever made have at the very least gotten back to me. I would never be able to apply to 38 jobs…

Most applications are quizzes + resume. There is only one way of applying for it. I got turned down by over 100 companies before I even had an interview. The process is really random.

Right, I personally literally change my resume based on each application focusing on the experience which I think would be most relevant for each position. I also change the introduction sentence and when I respond to open ended questions (in the quizzes) I always refer back to the company and relevant examples. Cover letter, when requested, also takes me a lot of time to write up.

Re: For anyone who has been turned down by 38 companies

#120

Post by beebs93 »

hijinks wrote: post #109
deftnerd wrote: post #89

The current state of the hiring process in tech companies has really affected me. I'm, by nature, a very shy person who doesn't deal with rejection very well. Because of this, I tend to apply at jobs where my hiring is a slam-dunk because it's so routine and easily within my skill-set. It results in jobs that aren't particularly fulfilling but gives me plenty of time to work on technology I'm interested in my spare t…

Rejection is just a part of life.. I was really scared of rejection till one day I just gave in and told myself that, I'll never get anywhere playing the safe hand. My advice is go on interviews you don't even care about in hopes to get rejected. Some places might tell you to leave like half way through an interview which is awkward, but most will shoot you an email or you just never hear from them. Once you get a fe…

> My advice is go on interviews you don't even care about in hopes to get rejected.

This was an immense help when I recently decided to switch companies. I applied to places I didn't really want to work at so that I could either:

1. Get rejected and get used to hearing/reading those words while not taking it personally.

2. Work on my negotiation skills if I actually got an offer.

Either way it was a win-win for me in terms of what I was really trying to achieve.

You may come across a dream job posting one day and if you can block out the worry of rejection you'll have a higher chance of success.

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