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NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

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Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#111

Post by jessaustin »

nv-vn wrote: post #68
jperras wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, the `average` package on NPM is one that I came across: https://www.npmjs.com/package/average var average = require('average'); var result = average([2, 5, 0, 1, 25, 7, 3, 0, 0, 10]); console.log('The average for all the values is:', result); It's hard to not stare at that in complete disbelief; someone thought that it was worthwhile to create a package for determining the mean of an array of numbers.

And 54 people found it a worthwhile package to install _this week alone_.

That could be one dependent module that got installed in 54 places. More likely, it was mostly various bots that install everything on some semi-regular schedule.

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#112

Post by sotojuan »

rtpg wrote: post #72
jperras wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, the `average` package on NPM is one that I came across: https://www.npmjs.com/package/average var average = require('average'); var result = average([2, 5, 0, 1, 25, 7, 3, 0, 0, 10]); console.log('The average for all the values is:', result); It's hard to not stare at that in complete disbelief; someone thought that it was worthwhile to create a package for determining the mean of an array of numbers.

Well a bunch of standard libraries have sum defined, right? JavaScript has suffered from a lack of a standard library for a while. Having a small package like this means that (in theory) everyone is using the same bug free version of summing instead of writing their own. Honestly having JS start building a standard library at this point would be wonderful.

For now I suggest using lodash functions exported as modules.

For example: https://www.npmjs.com/package/lodash.mean

Or, in light of `left-pad`: https://www.npmjs.com/package/lodash.padstart

You get the benefit of a "small, focused" module but still rely on a large and stable project with a great maintainer that cares about performance and testability.

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#113

Post by [deleted] »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #73
NathanKP wrote: post #6

I don't see anything wrong with using a pre-made left pad function. Why waste time and lines of code implementing something so trivial when there is already a solution available? However, I agree it is ridiculous to have a dedicated module for that one function. For most nontrivial projects I just include lodash, which contains tons and tons of handy utility functions that save time and provide efficient, fast implem…

> Why waste time and lines of code implementing something so trivial when there is already a solution available? Because it's so trivial? I can't wrap my head around why this is an argument in the first place. It makes no sense to bring in a module from a third party adding yet another dependency and potential point of failure when reimplementing it yourself literally takes as long as it takes to find the module, add…

[deleted]

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#114

Post by jestar_jokin »

nathancahill wrote: post #84
raverbashing wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no Left padding is (almost in all languages) built-in, even C can do it with printf (edited) The problem is not having a library that offers that, but having this micro-module thing as a whole NPM module . No other language does that. If it was inside a string helpers, that's great. But don't make me one single module for just left-padding (or is-integer-number)

I think there's two points related to that: 1) JS is unique in that it is delivered over the wire, so there is a benefit in having micro-modules instead of a bigger "string helpers" module. Things like webpack are changing that now (you can require lodash, and use only lodash.padStart). 2) JS's "standard" library is so small, because it's the intersection of all of the browser implementations of JS dating as far back…

Point 1 was addressed years ago by Google Closure Compiler, which used "dead code elimination".

Also, the Haxe language, which compiles to JS, has DCE.

Micro-modules is certainly a solution if you don't want to use pre-processing or compilers. So is copy/pasting, or manually writing your own util libs, which seems safer than relying on third parties to provide one-liners for you.

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#115

Post by hvindin »

joantune wrote: post #87
ksenzee wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every line of code I write myself is a commitment That's true. However: Every dependency you add to your project is also a commitment. When you add a dependency, you're committing to deal with the fallout if the library you're pulling in gets stale, or gets taken over by an incompetent dev, or conflicts with something else you're using, or just plain disappears. If you add a dependency for just a few lines of code,…

OR: you depend on a specific version of the library, that you know that works, and you have none of those problems.

I'll admit I'm at least a little tarnished in my practices due to time spent in enterprises where external dependencies require 6 manager sign offs and a security team exemption, but if this were the case that you didnt want updates to the package, just that one version that worked -

If its just a few lines of code, just copy the thing into your code base? throw a comment in saying "came from xxxx" so anyone reading your code knows that it might look like a overly generic function because it is.

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#116

Post by rimunroe »

I'm not really sure whether or not I should to add my voice to the din, but I feel like this whole thing is more a problem with npm and what it allows vs. what it encourages (and the rather paltry standard libraries in Node & browsers), rather than a problem with developers feeling entitled to not have to write their sorters and padding functions.

npm actively encourages structuring projects as many tiny individual modules and dealing with the resultant dependency trees and deduplication. Both of these things (along with the ease of publication) combine to encourage people to share their packages.

They make it incredibly easy to consume code from other people, but but at the same time provide a similarly low-barrier mechanism to retroactively change published code. That combination seems like a way more deserving topic of criticism than the unending refrain of "developers these days are so lazy".

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#117

Post by newobj »

Have we forgotten how to program?

Maybe we've forgotten how to /just/ program. Everyone bangs the drum so hard of "let github be your resume." Incentivizing putting every brain fart you ever had out into the universe instead of just keeping it to yourself.

Just a thought.

Re: NPM and Left-Pad: Have We Forgotten How to Program?

#118

Post by smrtinsert »

darawk wrote: post #28

Everything in this article is categorically wrong and antithetical to every principle of good programming ever articulated. The only problem here, as others have already noted, is that NPM allows people to delete published packages. Small modules are not evidence of a problem, and they certainly aren't evidence of an inability to implement these things on the part of the people depending on them. Why would I implemen…

I wish I could say you were joking. At best it comes off as ivory tower idealism, at worst the complete naivete of someone who doesnt code.
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