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Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

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Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#111

Post by matthewmacleod »

josteink wrote: post #33
themartorana wrote: post #15

This is a mess larger than I can comprehend, with scores of innocent dead. The spectrum of political issues this crosses is vast. We're talking nationalism, immigration, religion, extremism, surveillance, privacy, and war to name a few. The nuance required to understand and attack the big picture is almost nowhere to be found. I saw the French PM said something like "we're at war" - I'm not sure who they're at war wi…

> This is a mess larger than I can comprehend, with scores of innocent dead. What's most sad about it, is that the current situation is the result of doing nothing, despite having crystal clear data on the situation, and in which (wrong) direction things has been changing. It's been clear that something needs to be done for years, even decades, but actually doing something about the situation would mean publicly ackn…

I don't understand what "known indisputable facts" you are referring to. Genuinely, I don't.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#112

Post by tremon »

dmichulke wrote: post #7

As sad as it is, I think the responses will be: - we need more surveillance rights and money for the secret services - we need more police and higher spending - and possibly bomb some country (Syria is en vogue) What won't be said is: - How come this happens again without anyone having seen it coming? - What does it say about the success of the Western anti-terror foreign policy adopted ~2001?

How come this happens again without anyone having seen it coming?

But they did see it coming. From what I gathered from the response of many Brussels residents and airport personnel, the question was "when", more than "if".

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#113

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

ageofwant wrote: post #98
kehrlann wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Syria for sure, and there's also Libya. Ah, and don't forget the European border policies regarding (mostly Syrian) refugees...

Assad was one of the few that survived the Arab Spring. The Saudi's was another, and a US ally. It is interesting to note that one of the most regressive regimes in the world, Saudi Arabia is one of America's strongest allies in the middle east. But that's none of my business. Many believe that getting rid of Assad will end the Syrian refugee crisis. Others observe that when the Saddam and Gaddafi heads were cut off…

There's simply no way that even if we wanted to, restoring Assad in Syria will ever work again. Too many (basically, everyone whose not an Alawite or Christian) people will never acquiesce to living under his rule.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#114

Post by danharaj »

raverbashing wrote: post #80
dmichulke wrote: post #7

As sad as it is, I think the responses will be: - we need more surveillance rights and money for the secret services - we need more police and higher spending - and possibly bomb some country (Syria is en vogue) What won't be said is: - How come this happens again without anyone having seen it coming? - What does it say about the success of the Western anti-terror foreign policy adopted ~2001?

> How come this happens again without anyone having seen it coming? A lot of people could see it coming, except for the naive PC people

I'm sure people like you would like to continue and strengthen domestic and foreign policies that would just lead to further violence. Western governments and their right wing supporters in the populace love bashing heads, and when that leads to disenfranchised people with no future who feel utter hostility towards them, they blame everyone but their own actions and bash even harder.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#116

Post by mtgx »

Hopefully this doesn't end up as another call to "be united". I've seen how the governments in question abuse that. If they get all the support they need, then they start doing awful things, even illegal things against European laws and whatnot. But because the countries are "united", nobody says anything anymore.

What we need is to think this through, which also means challenging conventional wisdom, not just be "be united in following whatever said government wants to do".

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#117

Post by matthewaveryusa »

We havent seen a group of 50 militants take over a city and reck havoc because our surveillance systems can detect such levels of organization. As horrible as this sounds, anyone with an IQ above 60 can plot and kill 30 people because there's not enough signal in the vast noise our communication networks generate to pick up on it. If we can prevent terrorist attacks that kill thousands of individuals we've won.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#118

Post by Strom »

Kiro wrote: post #79
dmichulke wrote: post #7

As sad as it is, I think the responses will be: - we need more surveillance rights and money for the secret services - we need more police and higher spending - and possibly bomb some country (Syria is en vogue) What won't be said is: - How come this happens again without anyone having seen it coming? - What does it say about the success of the Western anti-terror foreign policy adopted ~2001?

> we need more police Why is this a bad thing? I feel safer with more police presence but maybe that's just me.

That's exactly what more police will do. Make people feel safer, not actually be more safe. It's security theater. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#119

Post by ptaipale »

creshal wrote: post #73
ekianjo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - we need more surveillance rights and money for the secret services Looks like it's not working too well. Surveillance services have gained mass resources since 2015 in France and that did not stop the December attacks at all.

France has had the most extensive surveillance system in continental Europe for over a decade and it has helped roundabout nothing.

Nothing? I don't say that the surveillance is a total solution to anything, but certainly the surveillance has helped police to prevent attacks.

Just before Christmas last year:

French police have foiled an attack targeting police and army personnel in the central city of Orléans, Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said on Tuesday. Two men have been arrested.

...

Cazeneuve said 10 attacks had been prevented this year in France, which suffered its worst atrocity for decades last month when Islamist militants killed 130 people in Paris.

http://www.france24.com/en/20151222-france-terror-plot-foile...

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#120

Post by Thriptic »

ekianjo wrote: post #67
jonatanheyman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to BBC the explosion are believed to have been in the checkin area, i.e. outside of the security screening.

This is a clear weakness of airports: where people regroup even before reaching the terminal, with no surveillance or security checks whatsoever. And that's not just in Brussels.

Yeah I don't think this is easily mitigated short of increasing throughput through check in / security so that you never have large groups of people standing around.
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