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Legalize It All

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Re: Legalize It All

#111

Post by charonn0 »

jessaustin wrote: post #106
charonn0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, compulsory free education for all children is a public good that couldn't be accomplished or sustained for decades without the state intruding upon the personal autonomy of the child and the parent (and childless taxpayers.)

...compulsory free education... I'm not sure what aspect of this situation this comment is meant to address. We're not absolutists; we just want the State to do less evil shit. Perhaps there have been lots of egregious abuses by, I don't know (sorry but I'm not exactly sure what we're talking about), truant officers? Nevertheless those pale in comparison to the harms of Drug War enforcement.

It's a counterpoint to the drug war: a durable, decades-long intrusion on personal autonomy by the state that produces tangible benefits and improves the quality of life for society and the individual.

Re: Legalize It All

#112

Post by hyperpape »

gardano wrote: post #101
13of40 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the constitution of the Soviet Union there are all kinds of rights and legal protections and such > They just say that someone belongs to an illegal non-harmonious organization like Falun-Gong or whatever and that's illegal. It seems like governments are somewhat uniform in the laws they pass, but fundamentally fickle about which laws they choose to enforce. In my state, for example, it's a felony to be a member…

That's something I never understood (and admittedly never researched either). Isn't there something in the constitution about freedom of association?

Yes. However judges cannot preemptively strike down laws, even if they are blatantly unconstitutional. Someone with "standing" must bring a case, which typically(?) means that the law has been applied to them. So unconstitutional laws often stay on the books without being enforced, until either someone overreaches and tries to enforce them, or the legislature formally repeals them. I believe anti-miscegenation statues were on the books for decades in some states after the Supreme Court struck them down.

Re: Legalize It All

#113

Post by charonn0 »

cooper12 wrote: post #104
charonn0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, compulsory free education for all children is a public good that couldn't be accomplished or sustained for decades without the state intruding upon the personal autonomy of the child and the parent (and childless taxpayers.)

Is it really as much of a necessity? In my opinion most people learn the bare minimum required for exams, and then regurgitate it. I only remember tidbits of history and a little Shakespeare from my school days. Even in college most of my professors just read off powerpoints and I was forced to learn anything useful at all for my career on my own time. Schools force people to learn things they aren't interested in li…

I have to disagree in the most strenuous possible terms.

> do I really need a degree to talk to people, to appreciate literature or art, to vote?

No, you don't need a college degree, but you do need an elementary education, which is what I'm talking about since that's what's compulsory and free.

There is no technology industry without an educated workforce. There is no effective democracy where the electorate is ignorant of history, math, and science. We can argue the relative merits of specific authors that could be covered in English/literature class, but only because we both were taught how to read.

Re: Legalize It All

#114

Post by guard-of-terra »

krylon wrote: post #3

We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course…

...and the rest of the world just got it for nothing, since USA had enough momentum to inflict policies on the whole world.

Well, at least now we know who is guilty. Now we should make sure that this crime is resolved with punishment.

Re: Legalize It All

#115

Post by harshreality »

talles wrote: post #91
miguelrochefort wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is essentially no difference between drugs and guns. - Guns can be used for self-harm. - Drugs can be used to harm others. Why aren't people ready to accept that people will die?

Pencils can be used to harm others. There's a big difference between "can be used to" and "is designed to".

Several "hard" drugs are designed to put users out of their right minds and into a state where they're more likely to hurt others. Same with alcohol, which despite its long cultural history, mainly serves as part of a socialization ritual and could be replaced with something else that's not as harmful. Perhaps we should try prohibition... again?

Cars with top speeds above 85mph are designed specifically to do something (in the USA at least) that society deems harmful. Number of cars ever driven at high speed on tracks or long private roads is minimal and not relevant.

Self defense and hunting are valid reasons to harm other[ creature]s. It does not follow that something should be banned just because it's designed to harm others.

In terms of what various things are designed to do, relative to what society considers acceptable, it makes more sense to keep guns legal than to keep fast speed-limit-exceeding cars legal, or to legalize hard drugs.

Re: Legalize It All

#116

Post by hobs »

winter_blue wrote: post #55
EliRivers wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is but a tiny shadow of the profitability of the drug industry. Legalised, the wealthy can own it and funnel money to themselves, and Uncle Sam can have a nice big bite. Here comes the money.

Legalized, this industry will collapse, as drugs would be very cheap. The real production costs of most drugs are minuscule. Their high market prices are entirely due to their illegality.

Illegal drugs are even cheaper and many will choose them because of the potential for employer discrimination.

Why do I think this? I have many friends in Colorado. No weed dealer there was upset at having more production available.

Re: Legalize It All

#117

Post by alistproducer2 »

merpnderp wrote: post #79

I'm completely against the war on drugs for most of the reasons stated in this article, but I find it's blaming of Nixon and racial/ideological politics as the worst most unproductive form of cynicism. As if there are no well meaning, well founded reasons to outlaw drugs. People often forget that poor, minority neighborhoods were often instrumental in getting tough drug laws passed. Because they often faced the brunt…

We await sources for your assertions.....

Re: Legalize It All

#118

Post by cooper12 »

charonn0 wrote: post #113
cooper12 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really as much of a necessity? In my opinion most people learn the bare minimum required for exams, and then regurgitate it. I only remember tidbits of history and a little Shakespeare from my school days. Even in college most of my professors just read off powerpoints and I was forced to learn anything useful at all for my career on my own time. Schools force people to learn things they aren't interested in li…

I have to disagree in the most strenuous possible terms. > do I really need a degree to talk to people, to appreciate literature or art, to vote? No, you don't need a college degree, but you do need an elementary education, which is what I'm talking about since that's what's compulsory and free. There is no technology industry without an educated workforce. There is no effective democracy where the electorate is igno…

Yeah but my argument is that you don't need a state for that. There are tons of self-taught people in IT and many people on HN can testify to that. And people can be ignorant in spite of education, just look at America itself which has groups that believe vaccines cause autism or that the moon landings were faked, among other strange beliefs perpetuated by the media. (which is really where people get their political education) And as to your last point, again, people can learn to read at home too. Maybe we just had different experiences with education, but I honestly don't believe any of it couldn't be done with different methods or groups.

Re: Legalize It All

#119

Post by sreya »

This is unrelated but it would be nice if this site offered the ability to minimize sub-threads. I was genuinely curious about people's opinions as to how best legalize drugs in a responsible fashion. Instead I have to scroll through an obnoxious amount of comments bemoaning the short falls of the government long enough to lose interest.

Re: Legalize It All

#120

Post by mertd »

cooper12 wrote: post #104
charonn0 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, compulsory free education for all children is a public good that couldn't be accomplished or sustained for decades without the state intruding upon the personal autonomy of the child and the parent (and childless taxpayers.)

Is it really as much of a necessity? In my opinion most people learn the bare minimum required for exams, and then regurgitate it. I only remember tidbits of history and a little Shakespeare from my school days. Even in college most of my professors just read off powerpoints and I was forced to learn anything useful at all for my career on my own time. Schools force people to learn things they aren't interested in li…

You are also ignoring the social aspect of education and just focusing on the learning part.
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