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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

vox.com

111–120 of 318 posts

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#111
post #80
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what life-enriching experience you can have with "a little bit" of heroin or meth.

A "little bit" of heroin is good for pain control. It is prescribed as such to pregnant women giving birth in the UK (it's called "diamorphine" but it's chemically the same). Amphetamines are prescribed in the army to keep soldiers and pilots awake.

Amphetamines are also the basis of most ADD medications.

... I think OP was using those examples because they're the stereotypical horror story drugs, but their analogues are everywhere.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#112
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, it's not just the people running private prisons, but also public prison guard unions: http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/timkowal/2011/06/the-role-of-t...

The vast majority of drug offenders in prison are drug dealers, not drug users. It's extremely rare for drug users to be imprisoned. It boggles my mind that this propaganda is kept being pushed.

The term drug dealer is a bit vague, keep your weed in two bags? Must be a dealer.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#113
post #97

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

That's really sad that you won't explore psychedelics because of personal idealism. You only get one life.

My personal idealism runs strongly in the opposite direction, but I would argue that the previous commenter's choice is not at all sad, for the same reason you use here! You only get one life, and it would be really sad to waste your limited, irreplaceable hours of consciousness pursuing activities you aren't interested in just because other people think you ought to.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#114
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that in this case it's a state issue. The 3 strikes law is a local decision. That doesn't change the game theory aspect of everyone chasing their own interest, and a small minority who cares a ton about an issue over-riding a majority who only cares a little. (Prison owners know 100% they'll benefit, while most of the rest of us assume we won't have 3 strikes against us)

It is both a state and federal issue. In 1994, Bill Clinton passed a crime omnibus bill (with Hillary Clinton advocating for it) which established a federal 3 strikes provision. Separately a number of states passed their own 3 strikes provisions. It is easier to hit 3 strikes under local law than federal so local bills put more in prison. But the Clintons now acknowledge that their bill is responsible for a big chunk…

> Of course Hillary flipped on the issue in the last 2 years when she realized that the Democratic electorate no longer supports "tough on crime" legislation.

To add to this, there was actually a huge groundswell of support from black communities in the 90s for toughening enforcement of (and punishment for) crime, including drug-related crime.

In retrospect, the policies were a complete disaster at achieving their original goals, but it's rather frustrating that the 2016 dialogue completely ignores the context in which those laws emerged.

Yes, 90s-era crime laws are largely responsible for mass incarceration of black Americans today. But it's not quite correct to portray the decision in the 90s to support those laws as a political decision against black Americans. At the time, it was perceived by many black advocacy groups to be the necessary response to the devastating effects that crime was having on their communities.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#115
post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

>> "people demand painkillers" I might be completely wrong here so please correct me if I am. Why would a doctor care what a patient demands? Tell them no. There's nothing they can do about it. I can't demand any prescription drugs from my doctor (I'm in the UK) - and I've tried once. Do doctors in the US worry about losing money if they lose a patient or this that not the case? Edit: Thanks to those who responded. A…

> Why would a doctor care what a patient demands?

Because pain diagnosis is self-report.

"I'm in pain and I know this drug works, please give it to me" is not an unreasonable request.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#117
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, to name a few, are seen as less corrupt than countries like Portugal, France and Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index All the Asian countries I mentioned have more draconian drug laws, less crime and less drug usage rates than the European ones I mentioned (along with the United States). It's easy to dismiss my argument by calling them corrupt and their statis…

China has a big ketamine problem now, with whole villages producing the drug and many addicts. Singapore has a middle-class "ice" (meth) problem. In addition, there was a recent study showing that harsh penalties and rates of drug use are not correlated. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/30/punitive-drug... If you think that particular countries have unusually low rates of use, then you may be just wrong be…

China's drugs usage death rate is very low compared to Western countries. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/drug-use/b...

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#118

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

Historically, drug prohibition was often seen as an issue of morality, not a medical problem that needs treatment. Certainly when drug prohibition began (eg the early laws outlawing cocaine, opium, and alcohol), the driving force was almost always either religious groups reacting to social ills, or moral panics of some sort.

Recreational substances have been a favorite moral panic for decades. Even in the 1980s (crack cocaine moral panic) and to a lesser degree the 1990s over MDMA. And this goes back a long way: think reefer madness in the 1930s, the racially tinged moral panic surrounding the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act, etc.

I know some people in the comments below are pinning more blame on the bad laws on lobbyists and entrenched interests, that's certainly partially the case (it's certainly open for debate how much they contributed to creating the moral panic even). But I would tend to put more blame on the moral drive behind many of the laws themselves. Moral panics have a nasty tendency to create harsh legislation that often creates more problems than they solve. And while there are entrenched interests defending the War on Drugs, at one point they were popular entrenched interests. No one is going to overturn legislation when 79% oppose even marijuana legalization, as is the case for this poll in the US in 1988:

http://www.people-press.org/question-search/?qid=195853&pid=...

To get the "political will", I feel that you have to counter the moral panic that has led to these bad laws (as well as the perception in the public mind) with "just the facts" on these compounds (most aren't as bad as the demonization would have it)... combined with demonstrations of the harsh consequences of these laws.

That's already happened to some extent... in 2016, a majority support marijuana legalization. There are more articles then ever on the high cost of our incarceration policy, and there's even greater awareness of how our drug policy has contributed to international violence.

I'm not sure that all Schedule Is will ever be legalized fully (personally I'm on the fence with many of them on to what degree they should, since some might indeed pose more of a risk to public health than it's worth). But if only the incarceration policy was adjusted to more of a treatment based one, that would do a heck of a lot.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say the argument falls apart. We have an obligation to help these people no matter what. We already spend lots of money trying to help them, even though we don't do a very good job of it. That would not change. The libertarian argument against prohibition boils down to this: The government can't stop people from doing anything, it can only punish people after they've done it. Substance abuse is something w…

> The libertarian argument against prohibition boils down to this: The government can't stop people from doing anything, it can only punish people after they've done it. Substance abuse is something we'd really rather people didn't do I am not a libertarian, but I have worked in drug policy reform advocacy groups, and a number of my colleagues were libertarians. This is not at all an accurate description of the proto…

Yeah, the libertarian argument is basically that people ought to be able to do what they want with their own bodies, including consuming drugs, and that it's not the government's business if they endanger themselves.

If drugs become legalized, the system that gets created will not fit the libertarian vision.

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