Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#111

Post by x0x0 » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:54 AM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #93

mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Geographic limitations are a big deal. I'm in the same sort of position as the IBM'ers, in that my company is slowly farming out what used to be internal apps to SaaS companies and moving the remaining jobs to a contractor in India. My family is local, and as I get older that's more and more important. If I have to leave town it's going to have a big impact on my happiness. So much so, in fact, that I may take a huge…

And before someone suggests moving to silly valley, consider doing so requires accepting a 98%+ chance you will never own a home unless you're willing to put up with a horrific commute. In most of sf/peninsula detached homes cost $1.5m+. And even a condo is difficult to afford on the salaries available. Home ownership for most of us requires a startup win giving you at least $0.5m after taxes plus you and your spouse both having good incomes.

I like living in cities, but I can understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, particularly if you or your upstairs neighbors have kids. And all my friends with kids say the secret to happiness is having local grandparents. Or an au pair.

Further, if you live in an economically depressed area, there's no guarantee you can easily or quickly sell your home. Family in CT a little over 2 hours outside of nyc had a house on the market for 8 months before it sold.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#112

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:57 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #66

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm finding it hard to understand how the current situation differs from that situation. Like so many other big corps, IBM did some questionable things because of bad management and got into avoidable trouble. Now the innocent employees - the ones who didn't get a chance to steer the ship - are being thrown into the ocean. In a sane world, those employees would sue the board for some of its decisions. Those decisions…

> those employees would sue the board for some of its decisions. How does that even work? I understand if there is discrimination, or they didn't get paid for their work but sue them for betting on services for such a long time? Yeah, I don't see how that works. Moreover, didn't most of those employees make the same bet by getting hired to provide consulting services. Besides, employees are not the owners of the comp…

When you're at will, it doesn't.

When you are covered by a collective bargaining agreement and contract, it happens all of the time. In my city, when the administration introduced unsafe conditions and unpopular schedule changes the firefighters union picketed the home of the mayor and fire chief, and successfully sued.

A friend worked for a manufacturing company where the Union sued over chronic and egregious mismanagement. Unfortunately, the management wanted the company to fail and dragged things out until bankruptcy.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#113

Post by SilasX » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:57 AM UTC

Anyone know how this affects their Watson division? They have a new SF office and they've been recruiting pretty heavily in the Bay Area.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#114

Post by SilasX » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:58 AM UTC

ImTalking wrote: post #53

I worked for IBM during the 80s at the height of IBM's power. It was the golden ticket. 400,000 employees and everyone was convinced it was going to hit $100B market cap. When I quit to form my own business, my 2nd line manager said "Why would anyone want to quit IBM?". Long time ago.

Crazy -- they could have almost been as big as Uber!

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#115

Post by piratebroadcast » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:58 AM UTC

JohnTHaller wrote: post #3

There have been a couple folks on Facebook reporting that the H1-B folks they trained are staying while they are let go (ala Disney et al).

This is my #1 worry about our industry - Zuckerberg and his folks will get that FWD.us thing passed and use to to ship cheap Indian engineers over here. Call me an asshole if you want but don't be shocked when it happens to you.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#116

Post by Florin_Andrei » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:59 AM UTC

moonlighter wrote: post #56

Meanwhile, IBM's CEO Ginny Rometty not only pocketed a salary of $1.6M in 2015, but also took a bonus of $4.6M. Not bad for 16 straight quarters of shrinking sales, evaporating profits and a falling stock price. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-ibm-s-ceo-w...

Well, renting a place on Elysium must be pretty expensive.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#117

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 1:59 AM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets.

Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech.

I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and sudden onslaught of more fuel efficient, less expensive, and better quality imports from Japan and Germany. Petroleum engineers, dream destroyed as the oil market collapsed in the 1980s. Aerospace engineers, dream destroyed with the fall of the Soviet Union and redundancies in the military-industrial complex throughout NATO powers.

Travel agents, newspaper journalists, and Perl hackers are only more recent victims of the same levels of specialisation.

It's not that these people are dumb, many were brilliant. But they're also laden with a tremendous amount of arcane knowledge, that, unfortunately, gets in the way of learning new skills.

It's been painfully obvious for a long time that, individual success stories notwithstanding, retraining and "reskilling" typically does very little to alleviate this.

Yes, future generations get trained into new skills, some of which may still be germaine 4-8 years after they've completed schooling. But my observation is that job and skill cycles are iterating faster.

So that's a part of it.

Yes, there are other dimensions. Obligations, family ties, social ties, fears, the fact that the most mobile do jump ship first, and more.

But really, it's quite crushing. You may not understand it now, but you almost certainly will, eventually.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#118

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 2:00 AM UTC

nickff wrote: post #81

ryandrake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$6.2M sounds like a lot for any single human being.

$6.2M is not a lot for a big company if the leader can increase sales or profits by even a few percent... which does not appear to be the case here.

[deleted]

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#119

Post by hkmurakami » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 2:04 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #114

ImTalking wrote: post #53

I worked for IBM during the 80s at the height of IBM's power. It was the golden ticket. 400,000 employees and everyone was convinced it was going to hit $100B market cap. When I quit to form my own business, my 2nd line manager said "Why would anyone want to quit IBM?". Long time ago.

Crazy -- they could have almost been as big as Uber!

well, inflation.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#120

Post by zanny » Fri, Mar 04, 2016, 2:06 AM UTC

mattgrice wrote: post #108

mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Say you're a support person working at IBM in Dubuque, Iowa, where local and state taxpayers spent $50M to lure IBM in a delusion of becoming a tech hub. [1] You specialize in Lotus Notes support for local businesses like Hormel. Last year, IBM laid off 2/3 of their Dubuque workforce, 700 people, in a city of 60,000. More than 1% of the population. Your only skill is Notes, same as dozens of other people that were la…

But you take that risk moving to a no-tech area. The best solution is to not put yourself in a position you need to get out of.

And if that means the next Dubuque company needs to be offering million dollar salaries to engineers to get commit themselves out there - since there would be no other opportunities and you would be stuck, so you better have a massive nest egg after five years - then so be it.