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Just Landed Is Shutting Down

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Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#111

Post by jakejake »

morgante wrote: post #108
jakejake wrote: post #100

This is possibly the most interesting fumblebrag that I've read in a while. It has a few issues which have been hot on HN recently as well as some age-old problems. The dependence on third-party services like maps, messaging, flight data, etc. is an interesting topic. Services that help you to get up and running in a couple of clicks are awesome at first. But they can become a burden when your usage goes up beyond a…

In theory, you can charge your average lifetime value upfront. In practice, for a good app the lifetime benefit to users vastly exceeds what anyone would reasonably pay upfront. For example, I've paid hundreds of dollars to Dropbox over the years (and feel like I've gotten well over $1,000 of value)—but I would have totally balked at paying even $200 on signup.

That is true, and to make matters worse it's probably near impossible to figure the right amount out when you've just started the company. You don't always know how people will wind up using your app.

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#112

Post by zippergz »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #44
zippergz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then watch someone else launch a free version 3 weeks later...

Reading the article, its clear that won't ever happen. The data sources are expensive.

I've seen enough cases of people creating crappy free "replacements" for premium apps or services, and people flocking to them, that I don't know if you'd actually need to fully replicate the data sources. Just find something "good enough" and people will come. Or pay for a little while, planning to "figure out monetization later" and then fail in six months or a year.

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#113

Post by jsulak »

grandsham wrote: post #55
Laaw wrote: post #36

Question about flight data and the middlemen: Do these middlemen have to strike deals with the various airlines, or are they simply accessing public APIs that generally stink? What order of magnitude, cost wise, do these airlines charge in the deals? Could I, $random_guy, make a deal with $random_airline, for an amount that is sustainable without any special kind of funding?

In what is probably the biggest case, FlightAware, a lot of the data comes from a fleet of users running ADS-B[1] receivers feeding data into their system. ADS-B data is what Air Traffic Control uses to track planes, and it's receivable using using a cheap TV tuner and a raspberry pi[2]. It ends up being probably the best way to track planes very precisely, as long as you can get enough coverage, which flightaware ma…

I'm from FlightAware...

Our network ADS-B ground stations is one of our fastest-growing data sources, but we also get data from the FAA, other national aviation authorities (UK, Australia, Eurocontrol, Central America, etc.), directly from airlines, satellite avionics providers, etc. Live flight tracking is a deceptively difficult problem - on the surface it seems as if you could simply collect data and regurgitate it (that's what I thought before I came onboard), but there is actually an enormous amount of processing and inference based on sometimes incomplete, inaccurate, and conflicting data, even for mainline airline flights. That's not even getting into GA or flights in areas of the globe where we lack complete coverage. It's a really interesting set of problems!

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#114

Post by SquidLord »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #12

I'm always curious why companies like this one choose to charge for their app as a one time fee when, to support the app, they have to subscribe to data feeds which cost money per month. I feel like you have to have a subscription model for that unless the price per month is just so low that, with a small amount of volume, you can easily make up for it. Either way always an interesting write-up. I do find it odd that…

When you design a service but charge for it as if it were a product, the inevitable result is that in short order you discover that if there is a demand for the service you offer, the demand continues – but your charging does not.

You would think that the consideration of "how will people actually use this application if we're successful?" would come up a little earlier in the design process than four years after implementation and deployment. And yet…

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#115

Post by Veratyr »

therockspush wrote: post #102

I can see something like this being able to work without paying for access to a flightaware api or something similar as ADS-B rolls out fully. A lot of aviation companies still pay hefty fees to tap into ATC data, that will essentially be made free. ADS-B Out broadcasts identification, position, altitude... With more aviation geeks out there supplying the data, people won't be reliant on centralized sources of info.…

Interestingly, "aviation geeks out there supplying the data" are how the FlightAware API you mention gets much of its data:

https://flightaware.com/adsb/coverage#data-coverage

https://flightaware.com/adsb/piaware/

With a bit of promotion your idea could work and in fact... It does!

http://www.adsbexchange.com/

http://global.adsbexchange.com/VirtualRadar/desktop.html

Also, ADS-B rollout isn't entirely necessary. It's possible to triangulate places with the older Mode-S transponder through MLAT as long as you have enough receivers in the area.

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#116

Post by kalleboo »

nicky0 wrote: post #27
coldcode wrote: post #5

This cries out for Apple to support update pricing. However the likelihood of that every happening is less than giving the NSA a backdoor. Update pricing would make Apple money (not that it needs it) and change very little but the desire is zippo to bupkis to do it. This would allow smaller companies to survive. Oh well, doubtful it rises to the level of anyone caring.

Paid updates would be a disaster. Can you imagine giving every two-bit developer the power to say "this update costs $0.99" and all they did is change the font. Your phone would be a sea of shitty paid updates. Many customers would not update their apps, and the user base would become fragmented. Customers would become wary of buying apps for fear of being ripped off by endless updates. You may say "ah but the good d…

> Can you imagine giving every two-bit developer the power to say "this update costs $0.99" and all they did is change the font

That's... how it's ALWAYS been. They can even do that now by just launching the new version as a separate app and removing the old one.

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#117

Post by GauntletWizard »

teraflop wrote: post #104
eCa wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> use the accelerometer and barometer to automatically detect takeoff and landing. Or check location with a given interval and see when they no longer travel at mach 1?

Would that even be possible? I know I've never been able to get GPS to work reliably on any phone I've owned while on an airplane (even holding it up to the window), and presumably cell tower location wouldn't be available either above a certain altitude.

Edit: I am utterly wrong about my first point, the export controls don't kick in til 1,200mph or 59,000 feet; Both much faster and higher than standard commercial jetliners. [1]

GPS on your phone can't, by US law, work when you're in a plane. It is required that consumer GPS devices stop sending data when it is traveling over a certain speed, to prevent them from being repurposed as guidance systems for cruise missiles. Seriously.

You don't really need it, though. If you've got two or three people on the plane, the signal from when they all turn off airplane mode is a fairly good landing indicator. Takeoff is less steady; You're theoretically supposed to turn off your phone when they close the cabin door, but most people I know don't until they are actually taxiing down the jetway.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoCom#Legacy

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#119

Post by seibelj »

levemi wrote: post #51
zippergz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a purely practical standpoint, it's easier to charge for the app and let Apple do the billing and payment processing, than to set up a system to handle recurring billing (and then you need to deal with cancelations, chargebacks, etc.). I've gone through this thought process for a few side projects, and unless I anticipate really large MRR, it's hard to convince myself to go through the hassle of setting up subsc…

> than to set up a system to handle recurring billing (and then you need to deal with cancelations, chargebacks, etc.). You just plugin the Stripe SDK and set up a Stripe account and it's done. It's not hard. It takes like half a day. You don't have to do any of this manually. If you're a tiny team and you are doing this manually you're doing it wrong. I've never had to worry about chargebacks or cancelations being a…

You cannot use the strip SDK for iOS devices. IAP only. And by that I mean, any situation where you want to purchase something in-app (an upgrade, premium service, etc.) and not a transaction for a real-world good. Real world goods can be purchased using whatever, but digital goods must use IAP.

Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down

#120

Post by [deleted] »

therockspush wrote: post #102

I can see something like this being able to work without paying for access to a flightaware api or something similar as ADS-B rolls out fully. A lot of aviation companies still pay hefty fees to tap into ATC data, that will essentially be made free. ADS-B Out broadcasts identification, position, altitude... With more aviation geeks out there supplying the data, people won't be reliant on centralized sources of info.…

[deleted]
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