SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’ • Hacker News Board

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#111

Post by distances » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

yangmaster wrote: post #50

I think if he hadn't gone on his moral high-horse and ranted about "free market societies" and "revolutions" he would've avoided much of the controversy. I sympathized with his actual grievances, but not his armchair ranting in the second half of his article.

I think he would have been better received if he was actually concerned about the people instead of his car. His solution seems to be "out of sight, out of mind", instead of e.g. taking on the glaring inequality. No wonder people are indignant.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#112

Post by jonknee » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

citizensixteen wrote: post #95

monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

>A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle" I used to also think that many homeless "preferred the lifestyle of homelessness" but I recently learned of a town in Canada (Medicine Hat) that found it more cost effective to house the homeless. This myth that people prefer to be homeless was shattered and this town found that nearly all homeless were able to reintegrated back into having their own places. The mayor was skepti…

Being homeless in Calgary is a lot different than the SF Bay area (you don't die in the Winter being a big one!). I'm positive there are many in SF who would benefit from a similar program, but there would still be a ton of homeless people.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#113

Post by hluska » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

toxican wrote: post #38

anoonmoose wrote: post #12

>> "Move over Martin Shkreli. You now have competition for the title of America’s most reviled millennial." That seems unfair. Shkreli made the news for doing things that would have a tangible effect on peoples lives, and doing those things with a smile. Let's compare Shkreli raising the prices on life-saving drugs to the first paragraph of Keller's blog post: >> "I am writing today, to voice my concern and outrage o…

Also, what on earth are the limits for a millennial? My late-20s self, a 9th grader and a man in his 30s should not all be classified the same...

This reminds me of 'generation X'. When I was in my early twenties, that badge made absolutely no sense as I was lumped into a group with my mid-thirties cousins and people who were still in high school. As I've aged, it has started to make more sense. Maybe the term millennial will be the same??

Edit - replaced the word 'pumped' with 'lumped'.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#114

Post by sandworm101 » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #100

joosters wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how many people are going to pay more taxes to raise the money for the government to do all these things? In the end, it still comes back to the people. It's not the government's fault.

San Francisco has a $156M annual budget to address homelessness. That's not a small amount of money. First let's make sure that it's being spend efficiently.

Or, rather than get bogged down in never-ending "efficient government" debates, we can increase spending today and simultaneously address efficiencies. Far too often the demand "efficiency first" is just a means to delay the actual commitment of resources.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#115

Post by danbolt » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

hibikir wrote: post #28

The sad part about the blog post is that it does identify a big homelessness problem, but does so in a way that is callous and doesn't really help. I spend a couple of weeks in SF this month, and was shocked at the level of homelessness that we find even in very well off districts. This is not something that is common in the big cities of the world. The city is OK with tents everywhere, but that's not really that goo…

I think your second paragraph makes a really good point. If you live in a tent where the world around you expects you to be in a house and make enough money, the mental stress is going to be huge.

I'm not claiming to know much about homelessness or poverty, but I'm pretty sure I'd become a less productive developer if I was stuck living on the fringe.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#116

Post by Shivetya » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #102

Coding_Cat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't force them to use detox clinics, etc. Maybe it is not possible yet legally, but why shouldn't we allow this? The courts can already force people to be commited for mental afflictions when they are a danger to themselves or others. Why not do the same for (heavy) drug addicts who start becoming a liability?

It doesn't work unless the person wants to recover. That's apart from the human rights violation.

Clue me in, what is the human rights violation? Or better yet, in descending order what are they in regards to those needing help but refusing it and possibly endangering themselves or others?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#117

Post by jmorphy88 » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

erroneousfunk wrote: post #103

So this guy went to school, worked hard, and now makes enough money to pay rent and feed himself in one of the most expensive cities in the US. small golf clap His main fault here is assuming that this also means, while ironically citing free market economics, that he's rich enough to have some sort of right not to see homelessness, mental illness, and poverty, day to day. That's a whole other level of wealth and pow…

> Your personal wealth doesn't give you the right to see and interact only with people who are within your same circles of success.

Uh, it doesn't? Why not? That's certainly not how wealth stratification manifests itself IRL... especially in the SF area.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#118

Post by ryanlol » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #102

Coding_Cat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't force them to use detox clinics, etc. Maybe it is not possible yet legally, but why shouldn't we allow this? The courts can already force people to be commited for mental afflictions when they are a danger to themselves or others. Why not do the same for (heavy) drug addicts who start becoming a liability?

It doesn't work unless the person wants to recover. That's apart from the human rights violation.

Human rights clearly aren't a big deal to most governments, the involuntary commitment mentioned by the GP is a perfect example.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#119

Post by cloverich » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #70

pj_mukh wrote: post #53

Any data to back this up? Can't really go on anecdotal stories or EMS accounts (who only see emergency situations by design).

Why does every comment on here need to be cited? Nobody is writing a research paper through HN comments. We're just having a conversation.

Because personal accounts are only generalizable when backed by additional sources / data. There's a difference between whether or not this person is being genuine (My bias is yes) and whether or not their accounts are generalizable (My bias is no). Asking for citations is to me a way of asking someone who seems already familiar with what they are describing for more information, so I can learn more / share with others / etc.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#120

Post by anoonmoose » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:29 PM UTC

toxican wrote: post #38

anoonmoose wrote: post #12

>> "Move over Martin Shkreli. You now have competition for the title of America’s most reviled millennial." That seems unfair. Shkreli made the news for doing things that would have a tangible effect on peoples lives, and doing those things with a smile. Let's compare Shkreli raising the prices on life-saving drugs to the first paragraph of Keller's blog post: >> "I am writing today, to voice my concern and outrage o…

Also, what on earth are the limits for a millennial? My late-20s self, a 9th grader and a man in his 30s should not all be classified the same...

I don't like using such a US-centric definition for this type of thing, but I generally think of Millennials as "people who were students when 9/11 happened". It really does seem to have been that sort of defining event.