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Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

nytimes.com

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Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#111

Post by iso-8859-1 »

brudgers wrote: post #109

I am a bit skeptical of the conclusion given the methods. Here, there's no observable phenomena independent of the test apparatus that corresponds to the proposed cause. The conclusion is circular. 1. Theory predicts gravitational waves when massive objects collide and that the gravitational waves would have an effect that could be measured by the experimental instruments. 2. The experimental instruments measure some…

A common logical fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#112

Post by nappy-doo »

Does anyone know if G-Waves are effected by velocity, like EM-Waves are?

In other words, if two bodies are moving relative to one another, one emits G-Waves, and one detects them. Are the waves at the detector doppler shifted in frequency by the relative velocities?

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#113

Post by gaur »

brudgers wrote: post #109

I am a bit skeptical of the conclusion given the methods. Here, there's no observable phenomena independent of the test apparatus that corresponds to the proposed cause. The conclusion is circular. 1. Theory predicts gravitational waves when massive objects collide and that the gravitational waves would have an effect that could be measured by the experimental instruments. 2. The experimental instruments measure some…

> That's not to say that what the phenomena measured -- the earth resonating

That's not what the detector measures. RTFA.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#114

Post by wildmusings »

soneca wrote: post #108

Honest question: there is any example of Einstein being proved wrong ? Was he indeed always right on his theories for phenomenons before they could be proved by experiments; or is that the case that we only hear about when he is proved right?

He was a proponent of hidden variable theory, which tried to reconcile quantum mechanics with determinism, famously saying "God does not play dice". People often say that hidden variable theories were proven impossible, and thus Einstein was proven wrong. That's not quite true, and only local hidden variables have been ruled out.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#115

Post by twoodfin »

soneca wrote: post #108

Honest question: there is any example of Einstein being proved wrong ? Was he indeed always right on his theories for phenomenons before they could be proved by experiments; or is that the case that we only hear about when he is proved right?

I don't know if you can say he was proven wrong, but the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox was put forward to demonstrate that quantum mechanics must be incomplete, because to accept it implied "spooky action at a distance".

Today, most physicists accept the spooky action at a distance rather than the idea that QM is incomplete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#116

Post by sandworm101 »

brudgers wrote: post #109

I am a bit skeptical of the conclusion given the methods. Here, there's no observable phenomena independent of the test apparatus that corresponds to the proposed cause. The conclusion is circular. 1. Theory predicts gravitational waves when massive objects collide and that the gravitational waves would have an effect that could be measured by the experimental instruments. 2. The experimental instruments measure some…

Except that if two detectors, preferably three, detect the wave at the appropriate times then it can be said that whatever phenomena is the cause exists at a particular vector. A bunch of waves all coming from a direction pointing to the center of a huge galaxy would fit the wave model more than any earthbound cause.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#119

Post by corndoge »

brudgers wrote: post #109

I am a bit skeptical of the conclusion given the methods. Here, there's no observable phenomena independent of the test apparatus that corresponds to the proposed cause. The conclusion is circular. 1. Theory predicts gravitational waves when massive objects collide and that the gravitational waves would have an effect that could be measured by the experimental instruments. 2. The experimental instruments measure some…

http://physics.aps.org/assets/0e3ca952-a3d3-49f2-bbc2-259c0a...

Lower two graphs are predicted waveform in event of binary system coalescence. Upper waveform left and right are observed events at each LIGO facility.

Consider furthermore that the event was observed at each facility with the appropriate lightspeed time offset, and that the wave directionality of the event was lateral and not radial from the center of the earth or some other point as would be expected from a "geophysical" cause.

Furthermore I find it highly unlikely that multiple theoretical and applied physicists would come to apparently total agreement on the significance of these findings and simply overlook the gaping logical fallacy you imply.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#120

Post by mc808 »

jshelly wrote: post #44

Does anyone else get a bit depressed when you consider how insignificant we are?

Most of those very subtle gravitational waves are also rather insignificant. Normally their effects would be swamped by other forces and interactions. At least as far as we know, we are the first agents in the universe to build structures that isolate and amplify those effects in a way that allows them to be perceived and appreciated. That seems pretty significant. We may also be the only means the universe has to feel proud of this little accomplishment.
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