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High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

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Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#111

Post by tossaway1 »

fweespeech wrote: post #54
tossaway1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

Posting the salary range for the position solves this problem.

The salary range I can pay friends on a lot of factors, not just the position. Oftentimes I can adjust the salary and title (up or down) to be appropriate for the candidate. But if a candidate asks what range of salary the position would pay, I'll give an estimate.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#112

Post by tossaway1 »

noddingham wrote: post #49
tossaway1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

Then you should share the range for the position and let the candidate decide if it's worth continuing.

I share if the candidate asks. In the end the candidates requirements come out though. If I say X, they'll often say, oh I really need Y. I can work with that. If they just walk away when I say X, that's fine too -- it wasn't a good fit.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#113

Post by tossaway1 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #44
tossaway1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's regularly on the other side of the hiring (i.e. negotiating with candidates), I often prefer to have some insight into a candidate's rough salary requirements early in the process -- especially if it's someone that might demand more than I could offer. The hiring process is a huge time commitment for both me and the candidate -- I don't want all that time to be wasted if we could identify early on th…

So just tell the candidate what the salary range for the position is. If that number's a dealbreaker for them, they'll let you know. Why does it always have to be the candidate who shows their cards first? Personally, for me there are no salary-based dealbreakers. There's always room for negotiation, after both sides determine there's a good fit.

I give candidates a range if they ask.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#114

Post by ghaff »

greggarious wrote: post #81
Spooky23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 45 you become untouchable. Too old to be young, too young to be old. How many 50 year olds do you see in SV companies? I knew a guy who was about 50, brilliant, brilliant engineer working for one of the big IT players. Well respected and trusted advisor to many customers. He got vaporized in some big restructuring that hit his division. Because of non-compete and what he did, he was basically out of work for almos…

I don't understand - I thought non-competes were unenforceable in CA?

Wasn't clear in the CA and the non-compete parts of that comment were connected.

However, in any case, the reality is that for small companies, for all but the most senior and/or desired employees (and even then), a potential non-compete issue just isn't worth dealing with. Doesn't matter whether it would ultimately lose in court, you're just not prepared to go there. That's the real issue with non-competes.

I've worked for a small firm and a candidate with even the most peripheral non-compete was just a non-starter.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#115

Post by pyre »

EvanPlaice wrote: post #106
pmoriarty wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just tell the candidate what the salary range for the position is. If that number's a dealbreaker for them, they'll let you know. Why does it always have to be the candidate who shows their cards first? Personally, for me there are no salary-based dealbreakers. There's always room for negotiation, after both sides determine there's a good fit.

Consider that recruiters also have to justify their own existence. From a business perspective, their position is a sunk cost. If they can't signal to their employer that their work is gaining the business something above and beyond just doing their day-to-day job then there's no chance of advancement. They also dislike candidates that show proficiency in business for a few reasons. First, the candidate is more likel…

How does HR "ride on the back of an accomplishment?" For example, if a sales team hits their sales goals how is it that HR would get credit for this? Are you grouping "management" under the umbrella of HR?

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#116

Post by vinceguidry »

Riod wrote: post #105
vinceguidry wrote: post #21

I have been thinking about this phenomenon for awhile and how to hedge against it. My feeling is that employees are getting more and more exposed to broader economic trends, and not just the low-wage workers. It's one thing to be at the low end of the totem pole, where anonymity and insecurity force you to hedge against the possibility of suddenly losing your job. But once you clear all that and find a bit of profess…

That's rather depressing to hear. I think it is a question of how you rate yourself (objectively). If you're good, you can go on to found the biggest hedge fund of all time (Bridgewater). If not, then yea, I think yours is the way to go.

Eh, I wouldn't look at it that way. Avoiding complacency and building bridges is just as important for those with healthy egos as it is for those with weak ones.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#117

Post by penfro »

lastofus wrote: post #86
maxsilver wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Almost everywhere in the Midwest, except Chicago perhaps. Unless your remote working, low cost of living doesn't come without a big catch.

6 figures is the exception, but it's far from impossible in Milwaukee and Madison writing code.

I'm in Madison, approaching my 40s and making well into the six figures. I was just very persistent in looking and found a niche opportunity. Although I do worry about the central premise of the story being true--future raises becoming more difficult especially in the face of a layoff or recession.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#118

Post by Bahamut »

pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

I actually am happy to reveal the salary, mainly because I find myself on the higher end of the compensation scale for my experience. When you're on the higher end, it can help on the candidate side to avoid wasting time with prospective employers who want to lowball.

It also doesn't stop me from negotiating hard, since I have turned down drastically higher numbers than most companies are willing to pay, so they know I easily have options. I'm more than willing to walk away from recruiters (and employers) who want to coerce me into accepting bad deals. Setting number expectations upfront with knowledge of the market saves me time, and tends to be enough to weed out the crap.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#119

Post by uremog »

jrs235 wrote: post #57
gedy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried that (nicely), but it backfires too. Some companies are either old school or clueless on what to offer and have treated me pretty badly and called off interviewing further well into interviewing due not telling them that. E.g. "We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". I realize those places were likely toxic, but it can be never-wracking to someone who needs a job.

"We've NEVER had someone be so stubborn about sharing their salary". If I heard that and felt I was going to walk away anyway, I'd be tempted to throw back "How much do you make?" And watch to see if they squirm to not share. If they came back with "what I make has nothing to do with this position you're being interviewed for" come back with "then neither does my previous salaries, if they do then I need to know how…

My form here needs my recruiter's salary before I can move on.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#120

Post by kzhahou »

srpeck wrote: post #92
joezydeco wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it goes the other way, too. I've been contacted by many many recruiters offering interesting jobs but won't discuss the salary range targeted for that position. So how much time are you willing to spend on resume polishing, phone screens, on-site interviews, getting to an offer ...just to find out that they can't even come close to your current salary? So now I just flat out say what my jump-number is. Any answer…

My standard response is "What is the pay range? Who is the client?" to the recruiter emails. The recruiters that get back to you generally mean business. Because of this, I have a huge amount of data on contract rates now. Also, a good side effect is that at least someone is telling them their rates are too low. Hope it helps another consultant down the line...

You should share that data, help your fellow job hunters.

Last time I worked at a BigTechCo, salary ranges were $85-100K for juniors, 120-130 mid-level, and 150-165 for senior devs. Bonuses tend to hover around 30%. Of course, stock grants varied widely.

The largest IC pay I saw was $2M/year for a someone who years ago was part of a famous project -- semi-known guy. More recently, I've seen (indirectly) BigTechCo's offering $300-350/year total comp to mid-levels, and 5-600K to seniors.

Anyone else wanna share?

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