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The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

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Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#111

Meteor's best trick has always been data synchronization. That was the magic trick that sold your client. They proved real-time data synchronization could be simple and seamless, and everyone else had to run to catch up. But that trick is now 4 years old, and nothing else of substance really emerged. As Ember, Angular and React grew, you were never going to want to use their odd looking front end. Their data sync als…

GraphQL and Relay may be the answer but it's too young to make that switch now and Meteor is solving that exact problem. Meteor has the momentum and community to take it further. Maybe it actually adopts the GraphQL standard and unifies it into the ultimate dev UX experience.

It might happen, and the next year or so will decide its fate. Exciting!

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#112
post #16

I am amazed by how the article attempts to look forward to what the future will hold with JavaScript frameworks... and yet seems to be completely both dismiss or misunderstand (perhaps willfully) why previous frameworks have succeeded. jQuery did not succeed because it was a 'good enough' competitor to dojo or prototype or mootools or extjs... it succeeded because it went completely the opposite direction. it did not…

jQuery filled a need. It's as simple as that. Its success has nothing to do with looking in the other direction or not redefining Javascript: it solved a problem that a lot of Javascript developers were struggling with. Now what's really fascinating to me now is that while one can safely say jQuery created a revolution in the Javascript world when it came out, it is today widely looked as a smell and avoided as much…

>> Its success has nothing to do with looking in the other direction or not redefining Javascript: it solved a problem that a lot of Javascript developers were struggling with.

I agree with this completely.

Worth noting: for jQuery, the solution was aligned with the landscape of the time. Javascript support was a mess. Vendor implementation and feature support varied. A key benefit provided by jQuery was easy, performant 'write-once' code - the library provided an abstraction over often non-trivial issues.

Parallels can be drawn to the issues that the current generation of frameworks are oriented around. As upcoming browser features stabilise and become commonplace (i.e. web components, web workers etc), I think that the popular frameworks will consequently and inevitably evolve.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#113
I'm sure that Angular 2 would be a better choice for a Ecosystem like Meteor. React is very nice, but annoying to find tutorials, get a decent size app going (routing etc) and Angular 2 is more mature (all the good and bad points of NG1 and other js-libs were considered). Next to Google also Microsoft is betting on Angular 2 (TypeScript). This will boost the community greatly. NG1 was slow. NG2 is amazingly fast (webworkers/server side rendering). So for a Meteor Use Case I would pick NG2. If I wanna build a simple Snippet I would use React.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#114
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting thing about React is how some big names (Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Yahoo) rallied to React instead of creating their own libraries, whereas they all had their own-cooked libraries before. Also, which is more of a personal opinion, but I've tried a lot of frameworks/libraries and React is the first one that really "clicked" with the way I work and design. I don't think it will "replace jQuery", but for m…

I have read blog posts by Yahoo and Netflix. While I believe you, I'm just curious how they are being used by Amazon or Apple. Do you have references about this?

Apple held a ReactJS meetup on December and they showed off a declarative graphing library for React that they'll probably open source some day.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jQuery filled a need. It's as simple as that. Its success has nothing to do with looking in the other direction or not redefining Javascript: it solved a problem that a lot of Javascript developers were struggling with. Now what's really fascinating to me now is that while one can safely say jQuery created a revolution in the Javascript world when it came out, it is today widely looked as a smell and avoided as much…

Meteor fills a need. When a developer starts a new javascript project he/she is stuck with the task of choosing from an array of frameworks, backends, libraries, bundlers, etc. Also, like jQuery, Meteor is doing something in the opposite direction as all of these other frameworks. Rather than being just one piece of the pie and leaving the rest up to the developer, it simplifies development end-to-end (in theory).

I haven't used Meteor but that makes it sound like .Net WebForms. Is that accurate?

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#116
Dove into react and redux and built a couple of small apps. They are amazing not because they add some "fancy" features but because they train you to think with a different, much cleaner and simpler, mindset. Before your brain "clicks" you feel miserable. After it does you think "why on earth isn't everybody using this??" and any problem is solvable by dispatching actions and building reducers (thank you Redux!).

Three days ago I spent a couple of hours on Meteor's simple-todos tutorial, trying to understand how everything was working (that is, at an abstract level). I felt great after finishing it. Two days ago I started building a service we'd like to launch within a couple of months, e-commerce like stuff. I felt miserable. Pushed the first "draft" with a customized sign up and I felt like I had no idea how to proceed.

Yesterday I spent 4 more hours, started using packages like autoform, collection2, something for bootstrap, iron-router etc. and I feel FREAKING GREAT. Again my brain clicked and now I implemented ~70% of the features with validation, defensive checks on the server for security, nice-looking popups, good overall UI... I mean, I intended it to be a prototype, maybe mocking some parts but, damn, we basically already have a MVP! In 3 days (effectively ~12 hours)! And now I already know how to implement the rest, it just feels natural now. Like when you have a solid plan and you think it through in your head and you KNOW how to implement each and every step of it.

You can hit a wall with Meteor as much as you can with any other framework (I mostly use Django). It's all about reading the docs, looking at what the community is doing and try to adhere to some "guidelines" (if there's no standard way of doing something). I will let you know how it scales when we reach a couple million users (bazinga!).

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#117
I've been using Meteor for little over a year now and to me, the real selling point for Meteor was the insane speed, productivity, and almost instant gratification that results from that speed: all of a sudden you went from having to configure a million different moving parts to just coding, almost forgetting that you are coding in the process, enjoying yourself, and suddenly seeing your features pop out of nowhere. It's quite magical.

For someone like me (I'm more of a designer who can code than the opposite), the reactivity, feedback and interaction with your code make the whole process feel much more "hands on", almost like sculpture, in the sense that you are able to poke things and see them react instantly. And that makes all the difference.

Yes, many problems do appear once you dive deeper, but I've never used another tool that brought me closer to my ideas than Meteor. And in the end, that is for me the single biggest achievement here.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#118
Meteor started off so brilliantly. I wish the team would focus and just make it great.

Many people would complain about SQL and what not but the truth is there's a very large number of people who are quite happy with MongoDB and the fast experience building an app.

However there are some really big issues that seem to be ignored:

1) It's nice that its backwards compatible but some essential features are missing such as a router. Iron Router is available but it's practically abandoned. You can't even have URL's such as /2 on it.

It makes it hard to keep an app for the long run knowing there is a risk of an essential component about to be abandoned.

Other similar projects include Meteoric (an Ionic wrapper)

2) I wish they'd focus on making Blaze work. It works. Many people don't like react and just want an App build on V1 to work with V1.5 and V2. The lack of clarity is harmful to the use of Meteor in The Enterprise.

3) The build time. It used to be that Meteor built a project near instantly when a file was changed and hot code changed the page. Now it takes a good 20 or so seconds for a simple line change. It seems over the top.

4) Clarity and focus on direction. They spent ages pushing people to their Npm system, now they're going back. Why not start with node_modules/complete npm support instead of flipping back and forth. The volatile state of affairs with Blaze, Npm and the general structure of an app manifests risk in choosing Meteor for an actual Enteprise grade app.

5) A focus on improving what already works well over adding new features and degrading the performance of existing features.

I mentioned the build time, but other parts of Meteor such as Cordova, Blaze, Tracker, Mongo (Meteor uses MongoDb 2.6?!) would certainly help more.

I'm not sure what's happened but it seems a lot like the team is losing focus of what people actually like about the project.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#119
post #60

This all boils down to one key fact: Meteor is the only framework that controls the whole stack. After all, the fact that no other company than MDG has even tried to make it happen should be proof enough that it’s not trivial. I did it, over the last 4 years http://qbix.com/platform Actually our platform aims to be an entire "Wordpress for social networks". We realized that identity, security, roles, permissions, con…

This looks fantastic! Please could you write some words aimed at potential recruits to qbix? What to expect, what not to expect. I noticed, in scanning your site quickly (... I think all content should bear the 'scanning user' in mind, but that's another topic) that php is mentioned. What php knowledge is required? What JS knowledge is required? Make it easy for people (I mean really, visitors who are pre-tutorial) to decide if they have the wherewithal for it to be worth them making a modest commitment to take it for a test drive.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 2: What Happens Next

#120
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless this comment is from SMM team at Meteor, WTF? What is NPM market :)? "Bare metal" npm? Name single sizable project that uses Meteor? You do realise that for 90% of enterprise projects it's a wrong tool. There is no usable universial/isomorphic option, you can't expose API for external consumption, if you have to consume services on the backend the only cool feature that Meteor has is gone. Not to mention long…

My assumption is that Meteor is moving towards becoming like any other app you can build on NPM. That means Meteor will be the wrong tool anywhere NPM/node/javascript is the wrong tool. That's a fine agreed upon limitation. Currently Meteor is a layer above NPM, which is why I'm referring to NPM as "bare metal" NPM--you clearly knew exactly what I meant. Meteor needs to become an adjacent resource to thrive. So my pr…

NPM is a package manager. Expert developers are not scared it's just Meteor is horrible solution to majority of use cases that they need to address. You need to read up on what Meteor actually is and what it's limitations are. Major ones have being outlined above: 1) No usable uinversial/isomorphic option so SEO is gone. 2) you can't expose API for external consumption 3) you are tied to only supported storage backends 4) if you are not talking directly to storage layer it's only cool feature is useless

None of the above is limitation of node (or has anything to do with npm package manager).

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