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The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

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Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you see negativity? The same place you saw the negativity, which is why you prefaced the sentence with "I'm sorry." One should not assume someone's technical prowess based on one poor decision (a decision they've recognized as suboptimal). Also, they still shipped.

That's a ridiculous statement. "I'm sorry" is not an indication of negativity. Nor is it indicative of my posting history. Apparently criticism is simply not allowed. Sorry to poke the fluff that is somehow being perceived as value. You most definitely can judge someone's technical prowess as well based on their decisions. I am not sure how you're going to grey-wash this into some kind of innocent mistake. The decisi…

Every title is made up. There are all kinds.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#112
Lots of fear mongering here and as you'll notice, a lot of voice from inexperience with meteor itself.

We bet on Meteor and it's doing phenomenal. The development experience is great. I haven't been this happy and impressed since rails .9 ripping me a new case of programming love.

Look, meteor has it's downfalls but so does any stack. There's nothing working against you, it's all just code. There's no magic. You don't understand subscriptions, merge box, and how to handle joins? Level up a little bit. It's not a hard thing to figure out. Open source code makes it easy to dig in.

Yes, mongo is looked at in bad light, it's also incredibly powerful when used right. The trick is to not be oblivious to the tools you use and work around it when it matters.

The most important thing for a product, startup, and company is the ability to make the right calls and grow at the right time and then be able to handle and accommodate problematic areas when you need to.

Does meteor scale? Yes. Does it have a theoretical limit? Yes. The trick there is to be cognizant of the limit and plan around it when you are approaching.

It's all just JavaScript at the end of the day.

Oh you want to scale out your processing? Easy. Fan out some back end nodes in whatever language you want. Pull from mongo, do your crunching, and then feed it back in. Then meteor will sync it to all clients. This is pretty powerful. You can completely swap out and fan pieces out with meteor.

We have a massive app in meteor. It's also architected to be modular if we have to break it up.

The isomorphic nature of the code base has created pleasant APIs on both the front end and back end and has drastically simplified a real time app experience. Meteor sets a new standard for web applications and demands new perspectives. When you embrace it you get an ecosystem that is quite revolutionary to work with. Everything from the web-app, latency compensation, pub/sub, down to Cordova builds.

Overall, we are very happy. Yes things can be better, and we are looking forward to seeing meteor evolve.

Meteor shouldn't focus on supporting new view frameworks like blaze vs react. Just focus on adopting the tools out there and making it better. That's why meteor doesn't need blaze. Meteor doesn't need a router. Meteor should pick the best open source versions of that in the Js community and make it easy to work with inline with the "vision". Meteor should focus on the developer UX. This is their power. An opinionated framework that removes the stress of configuration and has tools that fit really well together to allow an individual, team, and company to focus on building what matters: features.

The vision is grand and I believe it in and I'm also not worried about scale. People said the same shit about rails, and x, y, z. Scale is a good problem to have and when you have that problem you'll figure out what you have to do.

If anyone has any questions about meteor architecture feel free to ping me.

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Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#113
As a newcomer to Javascript frameworks I totally love Meteor JS. I come from Java backend programming and My Job/Client always worked on proven not so recent frameworks like Spring etc. I always wanted to learn the Javascript frameworks but the vast options there are made it very difficult. Too many JS frameworks, Too many choices. I started learning Angular and they decided to do a makeover which requires learning from start. Even React isn't something quick to master.

But Meteor, it just made my move into Javascript webapps so easier. I'm seeing results instead of that paralysis of am I learning the right framework. I'm also almost 80% done with my niche Classified ads site.

Meteor JS is best thing I picked up In 2015.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#114

> Meteor has yet to establish itself as a mainstream development technology on the same level as Rails or even vanilla Node.js... almost four years after Meteor first launched, I have to admit I thought the framework would be more widespread by now. So what happened? A more general answer, I feel like the web programming world doesn't really need new frameworks, does it? Rails or Django got mainstream adoption becaus…

backbone.marionette, anyone? its maintainers are kicking around incremental-dom ideas..

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then Meteor does not meet your use case. Some people actually like opinionated, monolithic frameworks because it reduces decision fatigue and boilerplate coding. For small teams with outsized requirements, it's a perfect fit. I've built a couple (internal) apps with Meteor and got a tremendous amount done in a short time. Maybe someday I will need to replace 'x' with 'y' and have a hard time (or maybe not), but the t…

> but the time savings now are worth the technical debt that I might face in the future Oh, man that statement makes me cringe. Have you ever replaced a piece of proprietary technology with a different one before? I promise you, you will consider this decision up front much more closely next time.

Yes. I'm replacing a legacy PHP app with Meteor right now. However, instead of building a huge, monolithic app, I'm replacing sections of it piecemeal with small Meteor apps that use npm modules (or meteor packages) for shared functionality. So if one app doesn't work out, then yes, it'll be more work to replace it with some new fancy future thing, but hopefully it'll have paid for itself by then.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suppose those "timeless principles of software development" were born? People sharing only their success stories?

Not only was it not much of a story, in fact it's so generic that can be applied to almost any field, but I never said he shouldn't have shared it. I asked how he was a lead on a project, when it's kind of clear that he probably shouldn't have been. I'd also be inclined to ask how is CTO is, well, a CTO. It's a really rather silly situation -- but as far as startups go it seems par for the course. It's quite irritati…

your replies here are completely trollish, you're likely to be shadow-banned from this forum (meaning nobody would sees what you write). if you write a contact here I'll explain why in a personal email.

i'm not a moderator here.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#117
post #67

I loved meteor. Was committed to it for 6/7 months while still learning JS (and working on ember and rails projects with others). I knew it was a risky decision, but it seemed like a good choice for making it as a one-man dev agency. For me, there's no stack selection problem, for me, the main problem is the co$t of launching a working demo-app or a prototype. The only thing i wanted was a simpler/cheaper way of depl…

The biggest downside to meteor for me is that nobody has settled on a good way to use it in production.

We currently have a meteor app in production and it has a few large clients running off of With docker it can be very simple to deploy meteor apps as release mode meteor is just a standard node.js app. It takes us about a minute to go from dev->staging (and less for stage->prod as the image is already built). Depending on your app, you can get away with a fairly tiny server (2 cores, 1-2gb ram is fine for demo/pilot).

Starter docker file (note: this is designed to be simple vs best):

FROM node:0.10 ADD meteor.tar.gz /meteor RUN (cd /meteor/bundle/programs/server && npm install) EXPOSE 80 CMD ["node", "/meteor/bundle/main.js"] #Put your meteor.tar.gz file in the same folder as this (name this as Dockerfile), then build and run. Will bind onto port 80 #Build Command: docker build -t meteor-prod ./ #Run command: docker run -d --restart=always -e MONGO_URL=YOUR_MONGO -e PORT=80 -e ROOT_URL=http://YOUR_EXTERNAL_HOST -p 80:80 meteor-prod

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#118
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has more stars on GitHub than Rails. Nope. Nope. GitHub stars was never a good reason to choose a framework. How about we compare real businesses out there? Airbnb, Square, Twitter, GitHub, Basecamp, etc for Rails. What's there for Meteor?

I'm not saying the # of GitHub stars is a good reason to choose a framework. But it is an indicator of it being something more than not-just-another-stupid-shiny framework that cannot be immediately dismissed.

I'd disagree--a lot of the JS folks I've met are like magpies and will star anything that looks remotely interesting on Github. It is exactly chasing shiny.

Re: The State of Meteor Part 1: What Went Wrong

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suppose those "timeless principles of software development" were born? People sharing only their success stories?

Not only was it not much of a story, in fact it's so generic that can be applied to almost any field, but I never said he shouldn't have shared it. I asked how he was a lead on a project, when it's kind of clear that he probably shouldn't have been. I'd also be inclined to ask how is CTO is, well, a CTO. It's a really rather silly situation -- but as far as startups go it seems par for the course. It's quite irritati…

It IS NOT clear that s/he should not have been a lead, it IS clear that they made a poor decision, and are humble enough to admit to it and share it to the community. It is no surprise EVERY one of your comments is flagged. Your tone is continuously condescending rather than inquisitive.
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