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Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

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Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#111
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a company where we hire people for exactly that kind of gig, with a heavy focus on building prototypes of your designs that are actually usable because that's the only viable way to design interfaces. Here's feedback as to why I'm not sending this website to my studio lead to schedule a phone screen with the designer: 1) reused assets from other companies (big no no, even for just a mockup) that are inconsi…

I have no experience in your field, but I'm very surprised to hear that this isn't worth a phone screen for a 21 year old. Tough industry!

+1 I thought it was quite impressive until reading that comment from someone who works in the design field!

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#112
There are a few things I like in this (particularly the Finder bit), but so much of this is just a bunch of extraordinary statements with absolutely no universally-accepted justification, spoken as if they have some sort of universally accepted justification.

For example, "Panels use screen space more efficiently and are a more elegant way to multitask than normal windows."

Says who? You? It just drives me crazy when I see statements like these. It's not an effective way to get your point across. You want to make your case for something like that? Actually make your case. Present some evidence and your conclusions. Not everything has to be a Jony Ive marketing video.

edit: Last thing I'll say - I just re-watched the video, and caught the last line - "it rethinks desktop computing to help you get work done". My advice to the author - go work for various companies for 5-10 years, and then come back and see if that statement holds up. My ability to get work done would be crippled with this; in fact, my work would come to a grinding halt. "Work" just doesn't work in the kinds of idealistic ways these types of marketing-like videos always seem to show.

And don't get me wrong, I like the author's ambition. If I was in the internship-givin' business, hell, I'd probably consider him. I think this is a good way to get your name out there, even if it attracts criticism (like mine).

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#113
I love it. It combines exactly the three things I want to see together:

- Tiling window manager - that I have (StumpWM), and it's awesome! (pun intended)

- Convenient tagging of everything - now that's been discussed for many years already, and yet for some reason nobody actually implemented it properly.

- Eye tracking - it's a feature I wanted to have since I started using multiple monitors and noticed the unnecessary input action I have to make to switch focus so that it follows what I'm looking at.

It also has one of my favourite UI patterns - wheel menu.

A great demo, IMO, and I wish someone would implement it. I'd happily try it out, and if good enough, I'd become a paying user.

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#114

The problem with the tablet analogy is nobody seems to know how to design complex, professional-level (like Photoshop, or Blender) applications in that paradigm. Tablet apps are overwhelmingly consumption-oriented, and those that aren't all seem to be oriented around popular (and populist) appeal. Why is everyone out for the blood of the desktop/windows paradigm? Why can't the simplified-tablet market and the desktop…

Right, this seems to me to be a tiling window manager with a touch interface. This is kind of an odd combination too, because most tiling WMs are keyboard oriented, whereas most non-tiling WMs are pointer oriented. Maybe that's just historical and doesn't really make much of a difference though. But with i3, I have keybindings to "open the last browser window i used" or "open the last gvim window i opened." I can til…

I know at least KDE's Baloo indexer uses tags on files when available. If I search for the word "cookie" I get every filed named cookie, anything tagged cookie, contacts, bookmarks, and any parsable text document containing cookie including emails and IM logs.

I think the broader problem is that there is this awkward question of where tags belong in the application heirarchy. Right now most media files embed tags while text files do not. Binary files certainly do not, and folders are not true files and thus are not on-disk things to put tags on, they are usually filesystem constructs in a data tree somewhere.

Your file indexer could maintain the tags database, but then they are not file-portable. They could be part of the extended file traits in your filesystem, but then filesystems lacking support (including online uploads) would drop them. Thus we are at a point where tagging is done on a per-format basis, and thus some files are just not taggable but instead require indexing.

You would probably want to throw a semantic relevancy engine on top of that to associate vocabulary with similar terms, so if i search for food i can get things like cookie as a related search term.

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#115
It looks really nice. That said I don't see how this interface is better productivity -- unless your work consists entirely in reading mails and surfing the web. Also I don't get why UI designers hate "folders" and want to replace them with "tags". Personally I don't think you can beat a good old file system with a bunch of tags. Of course the file system requires some effort on the part of the user to keep things organised, but then again so do tags.

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#116

I'm presuming you've researched tiling window managers as part of your work on this?

I had the same thought. While looting mobile for some our better interactions (Swipe gestures for OS X), I don't see how this is more efficient that what we have. Mobile work flows are far more convoluted and time sucking that current desktop models. This seems to introduce unnecessary steps, and is completely touch pad dependent. Tagging exists in modern OSes already, plus there's a strong use case for folders. Ther…

[deleted]

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#117

Tiling window manager, with easy back-and-forth? Works for me. I have to say, I really like tagging-as-filesystem concept (where you can also meta-tag something), and the gaze/touch interaction proposed would be awesome to have in my opinion. The current interaction with tagging (basing off OS X) is still pretty clunky. It's a separate field, the new vs previous tag selection is aggravating with a keyboard, and there…

Hierarchical tagging is a good idea for a filesystem. The only problem with it is "where do you store that metadata?" In the individual files (requiring format-specific support)? In the filesystem (requiring applications that know how to read and write it)? When KDE 4 was released it included Nepomuk ( https://userbase.kde.org/Nepomuk ) as a universal tagging-and-search mechanism to do precisely this kind of thing. U…

> Tagging makes a lot of sense for things like photos and videos where search-by-content just doesn't work. For everything else you can just index your files and search normally.

Unfortunately, there's a lot more than just photos and videos which are unsearchable - but even with just photos and videos, there's a lot to be won by implementing this.

> What's the this-helps-me difference between a directory structure

Simply put: any time you have a logical statement (and, or, not) between two criteria, the folder hierarchy falls apart. Files typically live only as a single leaf node under a hierarchical file structure, but the contents of a file could potentially live under multiple branches.

As an example, if I have around 9,000 photos and videos, and I want to view family photos from Christmas 2015, that have my wife and niece in them... without tagging, I'm SOL.

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#118

The problem with the tablet analogy is nobody seems to know how to design complex, professional-level (like Photoshop, or Blender) applications in that paradigm. Tablet apps are overwhelmingly consumption-oriented, and those that aren't all seem to be oriented around popular (and populist) appeal. Why is everyone out for the blood of the desktop/windows paradigm? Why can't the simplified-tablet market and the desktop…

This is a shameless plug, but I've been developing something involving 'scrolling with a resting thumb' to bring up a quazimodal menu, intended for applications where one is creating content in a spacial context… (i.e. here's a gif demo with Photoshop: https://twitter.com/vivekgani/status/659437589896630272 ) The intent though is for folks that want some middle ground between having to remember a bunch of keyboard shortcuts and mousing out to click something. This is an actual working app that works with Sketch & PS and more apps soon - if you'd like to try it email vivek@thimbleup.com and I'd be happy to share it.

The OP had a similar thing with the radial marking menu, though I've shied away from that approach since it doesn't scale with lots of icons/options unless you do hierarchies - also I simply just wanted to try something different. One random thing I stumbled upon yesterday is an old Autodesk Research video looking testing these versus other methods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHZB0d20640

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#119
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy has the chops to come up with a well designed concept and should have the opportunity to defend & iterate on it based on constructive feedback. Some of these comments provide that feedback while others flatly have an issue with the idea of a concept altogether. It's unfortunate that desktop UI has remained stuck for quite awhile and only MS & Apple can really provide a new paradigm for people to adopt. Both…

>t's unfortunate that desktop UI has remained stuck for quite awhile A lot of things get "stuck" and for good reason. Steering wheel, gas, and brake. Sight, trigger, stock. Underwear, pants, socks, etc. Personally, I think the NT team really nailed the concept of the desktop back in 1993 with 3.1. The start button which hid programs and allowed access to other functions was incredibly handy, a bit like how a desk has…

I see those concepts in RISC OS¹, developed by Acorn (as in ARM, originally Acorn RISC Machines).

The buttons on the left open windows containing applications and files, like the Resources window that is already open. On the right are running applications. The menu on the text editor has been opened with the middle mouse button; to complete the save action (for a first time save, or new destination) the icon can be dragged to a file window.

The desktop can have files, folders or applications pinned to it, but there are none in this screenshot.

The screenshot is as the OS was released in 1991. The first released version, from 1987, had similar functionality but lacked icons on the desktop ("pinboard").

(The other thing I liked about this OS was how applications were packaged. They were simply directories beginning with "!" containing, at minimum, an executable file called "!Run". This made it nice to explore, especially as !Run was often written in BASIC, and there was a BASIC editor and interpreter in ROM.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_RISC_OS#/media/Fi...

Re: Desktop Neo – rethinking the desktop interface for productivity

#120
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this contemplation of what desktop UIs might look like in 3-5 years. Excellent work.

There are some very good ideas in here, notably the pop-up circular 'swipe' menu of contextual actions (near the bottom of the page). I built one of these into a trading system once and it was well received. Gaze tracking combined with "Just Type" strikes me as being potentially very powerful too, if combined with some sort of highlight thing so you know where you're going to be typing.

There are some amusingly weird things too, like the polydactyl-only requirement to "click and drag inwards on a panel with 6 fingers."

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