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State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

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Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#111

Post by deanCommie »

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts.

If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes.

Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft on immigration, and are too focused on "political correctness". They want them to wake up and recognize that scary "others" are around every corner and can't wait to harm us. Well, the irony is that it is those social policies and that ostracization that creates the conditions in which resentment grows.

And here we are. Screaming more about "those muslims". Which only pushes moderate muslims further to feel like there is no tolerance for nuiance in the West.

This will do gangbusters for ISIS recruitment.

edit: Just so people understand, I'm not victim blaming anyone. I am traumatized as one of my favourite cities and areas that I've been to only weeks ago are in the grips of panic and terror at the hands of horrific monsters.

I'm not saying "Well yeah, of course, that's what's going to happen. France had it coming". I'm responding to the people who are saying "Well, yeah, of course, that's what's going to happen. When you allow so many immigrants and muslims have free reign". I'm looking ahead at the next few weeks as people take this opportunity to just blame everything on Islam. And make the situation worse longer term.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#113

Post by vacri »

hyperbovine wrote: post #28
benevol wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to ask the question what kind of life we want for those who do live.

In the coming days or weeks, sure. Now?

A mature response is to start discussion ASAP and bring in more information as it becomes known. Entering a state of faux paralysis out of some sort of sense of 'too soon' gets us nowhere. It's also not like terrorist attacks are new to Europe - this one is a bit bigger than normal, but it's not a 9/11-scale outlier.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#114

Post by borkt »

Sven7 wrote: post #97

I'd like to see a ban on live threads, when these things happen. Beyond reporting emergency contact info they serve no purpose other than encouraging the next attack.

If you think an HN thread is is encouraging an attack... might as well shut down twitter, facebook, all versions of press and publishing first

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#115

Post by qb45 »

Gatsky wrote: post #9

A disaster. Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.

> I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.

Maybe because they let into their borders too many losers whose worldview renders them incapable of finding their way around the western the world? Maybe no more reasons are needed? No politics, no aims, nothing to gain, just a bunch of frustrated losers?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#116

Post by blackBar »

jacquesm wrote: post #65
wavefunction wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's there for Amdahl of IBM. I'm not sure though.

Yes.

Kind of annoying. Without proper context, it just gives the impression that someone left a stray artifact in a recent commit that got deployed accidentally.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#117

Post by cataflam »

cballard wrote: post #57
rodrigocoelho wrote: post #38

Reuters just reported: "French President Hollande decides state of emergency for all of France, borders closed." Source: http://live.reuters.com/Event/Paris_attacks_2?utm_source=twi...

How, physically? Do borders really... exist in the Schengen Zone? Like, how do they shut this down? https://www.google.com/maps/place/France/@49.5467828,5.43629...

It's possible even with Schengen. A clause in the Schengen convention (in article 2.2) authorizes states to reinstate border checks in exceptional circumstances.

> Where there is a serious threat to public policy or internal security, these countries may exceptionally reintroduce border controls at its internal borders for a period of no more than 30 days (possible to prolong under conditions established by the code) or for the foreseeable duration of the serious threat. This action should be seen as a last resort.

source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:l...

France was actually going to reinstate some border checks from November 13 to December 13 for the COP21.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#118

Post by TranquilMarmot »

Glyptodon wrote: post #37
philippnagel wrote: post #12

Now the black bar on top seems even more appropriate.

Why is there to begin with? Seemed random when I first noticed it.

First thing I did was inspect element on it... class="mourning"... oh :(

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#120

Post by jacquesm »

rdl wrote: post #100
jacquesm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a technology problem.

It's not primarily a technology problem, but I think there are technological solutions which will help mitigate the harm to innocents. (There's also a whole suite of technology problems here solved via JDAMs and Hellfires, which seem to be actively being pursued.)

The primary cause of these incidents seems to be radicalization of segments of society with 'nothing to lose'. The societal problems involved in the creation of such segments and what can be done about them is a large and complex issue in which some technology will for sure be useful but which is first and foremost a people problem. The seeds for these issues were sown many years ago (and in quite a few cases with those JDAMs and Hellfires which now magically are suddenly part of the solution) and will take decades to repair in a way that these incidents will no longer happen. France is (like several other EU countries) shaping up to become a laboratory about how, if and when these problems are going to be solved. I see no major role for technology here, not in mitigating the harm to innocents and not in the eventual solution. In fact, technology - by virtue of eliminating a large number of blue collar jobs, which gave people something to be proud of and something to lose - is also part of the problem.
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