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TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

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Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#111

Post by s73v3r »

DannyBee wrote: post #76
vonmoltke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So yeah, it doesn't stop private citizens or parties from doing whatever they want. It may stop you from being able to create laws and enforce them at import/export time around actually complying with OSS licenses. The treaty specifically states a party cannot compel the owner to reveal the source code. Arguably someone violating the GPL or similar license is not the actual owner of the code.

I'm not sure why you believe this. I quoted the actual text: "1. No Party shall require the transfer of, or access to, source code of software owned by a person of another Party, as a condition for the import, distribution, sale or use of such software, or of products containing such software, in its territory." It does not say no party can compel an owner, it says no party can compel access to the source code owned…

Party means party to the treaty. As in, a country. It has no bearing on private sector agreements, such as the GPL.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#112

Post by kristopolous »

This TPP is such bad news. I've never been politically active enough to want to "run a campaign" but honestly, this thing is really motivating me to take time out of my busy schedule ... I feel like it's such an uphill battle to get this thing defeated.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#113

Post by fastmark »

If a government wanted to give out Linux PCs to children. Then, the students could require the government to provide the open source software as it part of the copyright condition of Linux. But the government couldn't require the distributor of the Linux PC to provide the source code. What happens? Would it be illegal for the government to buy Linux PCs for civilians? Note: a Linux PC could be a smart card used for identification, voting, a licence, etc.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#114

Post by ptaipale »

lafay wrote: post #63
15155 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expounding further - what government agency has the time or money to actually sift through mountains of source code? From a pure financial standpoint, there's no possible way that it isn't cheaper to just measure real emissions than attempt some kind of software analysis for every version of every vehicle on the market. Furthermore, an agency inspecting source code has absolutely no way to tell whether or not that th…

Just as a counterpoint: the Nevada Gaming Commission has plenty of time and money to sift through the source code of every gaming device that gets deployed in NV.

Compared to any car ECU and related software, gaming machine software is rather simple. Not exactly trivial, but much simpler, and the state can afford to set rather arbitrary behavioural restrictions.

Similar restrictions would severely cripple innovation in cars. Just consider Tesla's autopilot software.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#115

Post by s73v3r »

riskable wrote: post #109
andrewmutz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to agree with this point and elaborate: when the text uses the word "party" it refers to a nation signing the treaty, and not people. So when it says "No Party shall require the transfer of, or access to, source code of software owned by a person of another Party, as a condition for the import, distribution, sale or use of such software, or of products containing such software, in its territory," Party refers to…

In a State where the GPL is enforceable would it be a violation of the TPP to require that a foreign company comply with the GPL and release the source code? I think that's the $1,000,000 question.

No, because that's just enforcing a private contract.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#116

Post by oldmanjay »

kuschku wrote: post #64
crdoconnor wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TPP is actually supposed to exclude China and create a competing trade bloc. It was even called the "everybody but China deal" by some people. All part of Obama's "pivot to Asia"... supposedly. However, given the contents of the treaty, I don't think this exclusion is something that really bothers China. China wanted in on the WTO bad. Real bad. China doesn't really care about the TPP.

To quote Obama: > The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century. http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/trade-tpp-idINKCN0S... It very much sounds like they’re treating the rest of the world as colonies.

Not colonies, markets. The connotations of your word choice seem solely intended to make emotional connections that the reality does not support.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#117

Post by structural »

15155 wrote: post #32
stingraycharles wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but you shouldn't need access to a car's source code to measure its emissions. The test is broken, not the software.

Expounding further - what government agency has the time or money to actually sift through mountains of source code? From a pure financial standpoint, there's no possible way that it isn't cheaper to just measure real emissions than attempt some kind of software analysis for every version of every vehicle on the market. Furthermore, an agency inspecting source code has absolutely no way to tell whether or not that th…

In a similar vein, what government agency has the time or money to actually review every single diagram for a building to be constructed?

It's actually the same problem: an extremely complex object is being constructed, a critical failure within which could leave many people nearby injured or dead.

The solution is actually somewhat ingenious: License a small group of people to go analyze such things, let them organize themselves independently, but require them to sign off on the design. It turns out that with their license and livelihood on the line, enough people aren't willing to sign off on terrible, shoddy crap that the system mostly works.

Perhaps it's time that software grew up and became something closer to a real engineering discipline?

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#118

Post by cJ0th »

igl wrote: post #44

I can only think of TPP/TIPP as Protectionism... how can this go well?

That's what I've been wondering. They say these treaties facilitate trade between countries. But it actually looks more like they just shakes things. The result being a new, wild west trade environment in which the rules the players abide to are yet to be found.

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#119

Post by Zigurd »

dak1 wrote: post #4

These are rules for States. It has no bearing whatsoever on the GPL. This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. It also helps to prevent States from demanding and acquiring encryption or other private keys (there's a separate section that also explicitly forbids mandating backdoors be added). Not everything in th…

So you're not allowed to mandate that back-doors are added to software. But you're not able to look for them in systems you buy for what might be security or infrastructure systems?

Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software

#120

Post by Zigurd »

PMan74 wrote: post #34
wheaties wrote: post #5

Would this prevent us from requiring VW make available it's source code? Not a lawyer.

Why would you want VW to make available its source code?

Because stronger deterrence against cheating is needed. They got away with it for a very long time. Increasing the risks for cheaters is a rational change to make in light of that.
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