Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't it be the PR person? Someone at the level of Jay Carney is ostensibly more than just a mouthpiece, but someone who gathers the information and weighs in on what's useful and relevant to disseminate to the press. This isn't always a nefarious thing; sometimes employees have incomplete information but aren't in a position to confirm it with the executives. At this phase, where the story has run and the da…
As it stands, Amazon/Carney have made a defamatory statement about an individual while providing no evidence of their claims. Claiming to have the results of an internal investigation is not evidence. Now, the entire investigation will need to be made public and scrutinized. This will likely allow legal entrance into all of Amazon, as all internal policies will need to be examined.
What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
111–120 of 270 posts
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#112I recently quit Amazon. I don't doubt that New York Times purposely misrepresented or omitted facts to make this story. Their stories tend to be very agenda driven and the facts tend to be subservient to the narrative, a policy which is deemed acceptable because it "starts a conversation" or the story is "probably true for someone". This is typical of the left wing. However, I did in fact have an absolutely awful exp…
> Their stories tend to be very agenda driven and the facts tend to be subservient to the narrative, a policy which is deemed acceptable because it "starts a conversation" or the story is "probably true for someone". This is typical of the left wing. This is hardly an issue isolated to "left wing" media.
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#113Some comments:
> Chris Brucia, who recalls how he was berated in his performance review before being promoted, also was given a written review. Had the Times asked about this, we would have shared what it said.
Amazon is willing to "share" with the press the contents of performance reviews of its employees? That's bad (worse than what was in the article).
> Dina Vaccari, the former employee who is quoted saying she didn’t sleep for four days straight to illustrate just how hard Amazon forces people to work, posted her own response to the article. Here’s what she said: "Allow me to be clear: The hours I put in at Amazon were my choice."
That's ridiculous and meaningless; if you choose to not sleep for 4 days in order to carry out your job, isn't it obvious the expectations were set too high, and work/life balance is regarded as irrelevant, as a company policy (or lack thereof)?
> When there are two sides of a story, a reader deserves to know them both.
Well, ok (in general; sometimes there's no "other side"; creationism is not "another side" to the story of evolution, for example). But in this case, the "other side" should be Amazon employees doing normal hours and performing spectacularly, not the voice of management -- as rendered by someone who used to be the Mother of All Spin Doctors!
> The next time you see a sensationalistic quote in the Times (...) you might wonder whether there’s a crucial piece of context or backstory missing — like admission of fraud
That's a cheap, defensive shot; what it really says is you're hurt; and that you'd probably be less hurt if there was not a lot of truth to the original article.
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#114There are several shockingly inappropriate things in this article. In particular, the PR person at Amazon is saying that they would have shared employee's personal records (including evaluations) as well as other employee's termination conditions (which I consider unrelated to their quotes). Amazon: what Carney just posted was very inappropriate. I am completely amazed you did this (assuming it was done with approval…
Devil's Advocate here: The people named in the article and refuted by Amazon put their personal story a public story. If someone "slanders" a business it can't reply with evidence? Must the company say it is a personal matter that we can't disclose, which reads they are guilty and don't want the truth to come out? End of Devil's Advocate Seems like they were making a statement of if you talk will will fully disclose…
What evidence did the business present here? All that has been made are claims. I have not seen any internal investigation or performance report.
>Seems like they were making a statement of if you talk [we?] will fully disclose our information to refute what you said.
They don't seem to be making that statement.
The information Amazon has was not fully disclosed, but selectively sampled and leaked. If Amazon was serious about full disclosure, they would release all the records they are using as evidence.
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are several shockingly inappropriate things in this article. In particular, the PR person at Amazon is saying that they would have shared employee's personal records (including evaluations) as well as other employee's termination conditions (which I consider unrelated to their quotes). Yep. Additionally, its pretty clear Carney was hired as a political PR wrangler for the sole purpose of cleaning up messes li…
> For a data driven company, it shows they either failed to collect related data and/or that data shows the article was accurate despite the poor choice of sources. They do an annual survey of SDEs, and they do release that data internally (aggregated/anonymously). SO they do have data. The problem is if they release data taht says "Oh well X% of our engineers are happy with the company" Then when happens when someon…
If they can show a clear majority are happy with their jobs, that is the strongest argument they have. It also shows the articles claiming otherwise are in error.
There is always going to be someone who complains but data is more valuable than "well, all these people are malcontents or misquoted".
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're going to have a hard time retaining and hiring quality employees if there's an unanswered NY Times article out there about how awful it is to work there. It's sort of a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. But I think if you're fired for fraud I don't think you have a reasonable expectation that your employment details will remain private if you publicly slag the company that fired you for theft…
And they won't have a hard time retaining and hiring quality employees if all employees know that if you ever speak about your time at Amazon, some SVP for XXX might start selectively leaking portions of your personnel records? >But I think if you're fired for fraud Sure, but this is only a claim that Amazon/Carney have made. They have presented zero evidence for the claim. Also, Amazon/Carney released information ab…
Well, they've made a bigger problem for themselves if they're publicly libeling someone in addition to releasing private information.
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#117Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10065243 (424 comments)
Inside Amazon
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10070115 (98 comments)
Amazon boss Jeff Bezos defends company's workplace culture
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10072389 (73 comments)
My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10083475 (331 comments)
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#118One can like or hate Amazon, and it may or may not be a crappy place to work. That said, it sounds like NYT (a newspaper of record, btw) did more than reasonable selective reporting, to evoke certain feelings in the readers, to get clicks, to start a conversation, or what the reason may be. And it's lousy to see this in modern news reporting. Even the respectable publications err on the side of sensationalism, and it…
I personally think we're spoilt for choice. Just bear in mind everyone, everywhere has an inherent bias. Some more so that others.
I read these to get what I feel is a well rounded opinion http://america.aljazeera.com/ http://www.bbc.com/news
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. How do we properly discern between professional bullshitters?
I would probably have to side with Amazon's account since it would be pretty easy for the person who resigned to sue for libel if it were not true. Don't think Amazon would want to expose themselves like that.
I don't go around recording random conversations, and corporations have a lot of ways to cover their tracks. When that is your reality and the burden of proof is on you, you don't do anything. You get fucked and you learn from it.
Re: What The New York Times Didn’t Say About Amazon
#120There are several shockingly inappropriate things in this article. In particular, the PR person at Amazon is saying that they would have shared employee's personal records (including evaluations) as well as other employee's termination conditions (which I consider unrelated to their quotes). Amazon: what Carney just posted was very inappropriate. I am completely amazed you did this (assuming it was done with approval…
As to sharing the reason an employee resigned from the the company, I don't think an employee's conduct while at a company is confidential, and if they are a strongly biased source, then the NYT needs to know that, and then adjust their reporting accordingly.