Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#111

Post by b6 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:13 AM UTC

fukusa wrote: post #73

staunch wrote: post #7

> If you buy something from the App Store, we do know what you bought from the App Store, obviously. We think customers are fine with that. Users should also be able to install apps on their iPhones without Apple knowing what they're doing. Personal computing devices shouldn't have artificial walled gardens. But I agree with him on everything else and think he's a hero for what he's doing.

With all due respect, he is not a hero. He is just the CEO of Apple. And Apple, even though it produces great products, profits from exploiting factory workers in countries where workers have less rights and where labour is cheap. If he was actively fighting this system of exploitation, that would probably make him a hero. Instead, he profits from it. That makes him not a hero but just another businessman. Furthermor…

> profits from exploiting factory workers in countries where workers have less rights and where labour is cheap

At least in China, the "exploited" workers you speak of have chosen to work at factories rather than do the kind of farm labor their parents did. Do you think they would be better off if they were not able to make such a choice? If they were paid the same wages a factory worker in Norway might receive, do you think the manufacturer would choose to open a factory in China?

You describe Cook as just another evil businessman, whereas I suspect he has done more, practically speaking, to lift people out of poverty than most.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#112

Post by Mikeb85 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:17 AM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #2

Amen. Who the heck wants their own government spying on them? I'd rather be "less safe" whatever that even means. The government works for us, not the other way around.

Apple has admitted to giving the US government information.

So they don't run algorithms over your meta-data, instead they just give your personal info the the government.

I'm aware Google does comply with government requests too, but also attempts to push back and keep the government honest.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#113

Post by pdkl95 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:19 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #10

chipperyman573 wrote: post #5

What's with apple and their super-privacy stance lately? First his letter, and now his interview. Not that I mind it, but I feel like they're expecting something bad to come out soon.

Apple is essentially the only major US tech company that doesn't rely heavily on advertising income (and thus on online profiling to target ads effectively), and they've realized that this gives them a moral high horse from which to attack their competitors without actually having to change any of their own habits.

This popular talking point conveniently ignores that ads not the only way companies can benefit form spying.

The HN crowd absolutely loves using "analytics" to try and divine ways to make their products more profitable. Microsoft even uses this as an excuse for Win10's "telemetry" spyware: they say it's to improve the product. Yet when Apple spies on its users, suddenly it's ok because Apple isn't an ad company.

Apple is using this topic to attack their customers, but they are not exactly on moral high ground.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#114

Post by pdkl95 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:22 AM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #108

baliansa wrote: post #31

This is just a plain attack on Google. sigh

For so long we've heard "consumers don't care about privacy" and a lot of companies have seen success based on that idea. Now Apple is challenging that status quo, differentiating themselves from their competitors and offering consumers a choice on privacy. I can't see that as anything but good.

> "consumers don't care about privacy"

It's worth pointing out that while this was obviously propaganda (or wishful thinking), we now have some proof that this isn't true:

https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-...

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#115

Post by muddi900 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:23 AM UTC

IBM wrote: post #92

djhn wrote: post #12

"Here is what we do on our platform. Here is what an unnamed search engine company does, or might in theory do, on their platform. You will probably agree: what we do is better in multiple, obvious ways. To be even less subtle, I am indeed trying to cast our competitor in very bad light." If they're willing to walk the walk, I don't even mind how transparent this "privacy as a competitive advantage" strategy is.

They have been for years and people wondered why they didn't talk about it because of how it differentiates them from the competition. Now they're talking about it and a common comment here is "they're only doing it because Google makes their money from advertising", well yes that's the point. Kind of funny but predictable. Having a business incentive that's aligned with privacy is the absolute best thing you could a…

>They have been for years and people wondered why they didn't talk about it because of how it differentiates them from the competition.

Probably because privacy concerns weren't mainstream until recently, and it would have looked like an excuse because their services weren't up to par. Which, to be frank, is still the case.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#116

Post by johncolanduoni » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:23 AM UTC

sigmar wrote: post #47

jamieyy wrote: post #22

In that case, why are they supporting CISA? http://fortune.com/2015/09/24/tech-vendor-cybersecurity-bill...

It is a shame this comment will be downvoted only because it does not support the confirmation bias of many HN users.

Does HN now show downvoted comments at the top of the page? Interesting design choice...

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#117

Post by kuschku » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:32 AM UTC

mozumder wrote: post #109

takeda wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as much legalese but trying to hide a wolf in sheep clothing. They put other legislations around (I did not inspect them, so can't comment) and among them (in the center so person skimming it might miss it) they put: "Cyber Threat Information Sharing Legislation". They don't mention which bills they are referring to and they made sure that acronym doesn't match CISPA. If you search it you will find that ther…

> Why those companies want CISPA? Because it removes all liability from them when they share the data without a warrant. Basically we no longer will be able to sue them for violating our privacy. Nothing in CISPA allows them to violate their EULA. If they had EULAs that violated your privacy in the first place, then that's a problem between you and the company, independent of CISPA.

Or, for EU people, it’s a problem between the company and your government, and you can force the company to change the EULA, which in turn means they have to change their policies or lose in court, like Facebook.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#118

Post by pyre » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:32 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #105

martingordon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And where is that? Like he said, any back door for the good guys is a back door for the bad guys as well.

Accepting the risk that other people might misbehave is price of freedom . Do you want a General Purpose Computer? Or do you want an appliance that is ultimately controlled by someone else, where you have to get permission[1] if you want to use it in any way that wasn't pre-aproved? What are the odds that the things you want to do will continue to be approved when you ask for permission next year? Or ten years from n…

Show me a way to prevent people from getting viruses and malware that doesn't involve the equivalent of requiring everyone to know how to service the entire engine on their car by themselves.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#119

Post by muddi900 » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:35 AM UTC

IBM wrote: post #98

gozo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iCloud hack was enabled by the automatic backup feature that despite storing very sensitive information didn't provide adequate security for doing so. If there were actual precedent for Apple caring about their users privacy, there would be outrage over this rather than being trivially dismissed.

That's not relevant at all to the iCloud "hack". It's a cloud service, the whole point is to store data online. Those accounts were breached because celebs were phished and not because of bruteforcing, as some people were speculating at the time, or some other vulnerability.

Everyone gets phished. Fraud happens. Secret Questions are especially susceptible to phishing attacks. This has been known for about a decade. Apple had not updated the security protocols for iTunes, and in turn App Store and iCloud, for that time. The hack was definitely Apple's fault.

'"In total, the [500] unique iCloud accounts were accessed 3,263 times," the document states.' - http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-investigation-into-the-fa...

This was a massive failure in Apple's part.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#120

Post by pyre » Fri, Oct 02, 2015, 2:35 AM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #107

javajosh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this is a meta-comment because it's really just about your comment, but I feel compelled to point out the unnecessary negativity, and the unforced errors, so to speak, in representing my words, what I want, and what I've done. I'm not even sure what to call it when you create things I cannot do any longer to maintain consistency with my position - but without any evidence that I've done those things, or want to d…

Apologies, the vitriol wasn't directed towards you, specifically. You simply gave me an opportune moment to express dissatisfaction with the paradoxical desire of simultaneously wanting more locked down devices in the name of convenience and "security", while also making programming and/or CS a compulsory school subject.

> "security"

Why the scare quotes? Just because it doesn't provide 100% security doesn't mean that it provides no security.