Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent • Hacker News Board

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#111

Post by WalterSear » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

rco8786 wrote: post #55

WalterSear wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things that is a great idea until it isn't. When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's not going to be the case elsewhere. It's also much harder on the employers: if you think finding one good job is hard, try hiring an entire team of decent employees at once. Ultimately, it's worth the extra cost of staying where the tech is, prefixing your city name ala 'S…

Anybody in tech in SF is constantly fighting off job offers, not just when their employers go belly up. At some point, costs will reach a tipping point where people will start to look elsewhere(I don't mean 1% of people and I don't mean the Easy Bay, but actual significant people moving away from the Bay Area).

I've been here 20 years, and people have been saying that almost since I got here :)

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#112

Post by SovietDissident » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

I mean, I like LA a lot better, but I think even that is too expensive, especially when you're getting hit with CA taxes. I moved to Tennessee. No income tax, friendly people, fewer NIMBYs and restrictive building policy, fewer feminist harpies, etc. Apparently many others have had the same idea, since people are streaming into the state from places like NY and CA. You'd be surprised how much tech is here as well. Unfortunately, winter is way worse and there are no real beaches, but you can always buy a plane ticket.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#113

Post by pbreit » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

nullrouted wrote: post #2

Which is silly....honestly companies need to start opening offices in more affordable areas. Colorado (Blouder, Denver, The Springs), Texas (Austin, San Antonio), Missouri (Kansas City, Saint Louis)....there are so many places you can put your employees that saves them money as well as your company a lot of money not only in Salaries because you'll be able to employees less but your rent/power/etc.

I have a new hypothesis that I may actually try out: it's the business people that should be in the Bay Area but the engineers can be elsewhere. A lot of the companies having a great deal of success are iterating on the business model, customer acquisition and user experience side of things far more so than on the technology or engineering. I am hypothesizing that it is those people that benefit from being in the Bay Area and that the builders can be elsewhere. In fact they might be better off elsewhere far from the echo chamber and framework-of-the-month cattle (and cost, of course).

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#114

Post by aaronbrethorst » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #86

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

That's ok. When Airbnb, Square, and Stripe IPO in 12-36 months, all of the people currently flooding into SF to work for them will surely be able to sell their pre-IPO shares to ... Well, I don't know, honestly. I doubt that employee #1000 at Square would even be able to pay the down payment on a SF condo with their earnings. Also, just FYI: Seattle isn't that much cheaper than SF, the people are way meaner, traffic…

Everybody is running with your Seattle humor but your comment on IPO'ing is worth discussing. 1) The reason a startup is appealing is because you're supposed to make a great low 6 or even 7 figure sum once your company goes public. 2) To achieve success you're supposed to work intensely hard and smart (@pmarca) for a short period of time (3 - 7 years) and then if you've picked successfully you'll create a really nice…

> One would hope your stock is appreciating in value at an equivalent or greater pace than your income

One would, but given the stock performance of GRPN or ZNGA, or more recently HDP and BOX, I'd be leery of this.

Betting that you happen to pick the unicorn that's gonna IPO is a tall order. Betting that you happen to pick the IPO'ing unicorn that isn't going to fall apart post-IPO seems like too much to ask for.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#115

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:33 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #86

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

That's ok. When Airbnb, Square, and Stripe IPO in 12-36 months, all of the people currently flooding into SF to work for them will surely be able to sell their pre-IPO shares to ... Well, I don't know, honestly. I doubt that employee #1000 at Square would even be able to pay the down payment on a SF condo with their earnings. Also, just FYI: Seattle isn't that much cheaper than SF, the people are way meaner, traffic…

Everybody is running with your Seattle humor but your comment on IPO'ing is worth discussing. 1) The reason a startup is appealing is because you're supposed to make a great low 6 or even 7 figure sum once your company goes public. 2) To achieve success you're supposed to work intensely hard and smart (@pmarca) for a short period of time (3 - 7 years) and then if you've picked successfully you'll create a really nice…

[deleted]

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#116

Post by x0x0 » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:33 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #87

cdnsteve wrote: post #13

Seriously, the number of companies still not hiring remotes is ridiculous. We work in the most flexible industry out there yet most companies still want you sitting in a chair in some downtown office of a giant and expensive city. No thank you. No you don't need to make your entire team remote but you can easily augment a large portion with talented remotes. Keep your high living costs and horrendous commutes, been t…

I deeply enjoy when recruiters are convinced that I'll move to SF for their company, even though I haven't over the past decade. They also balk when I ask for the cost of living adjustment to make the move (+180%, give or take).

Hell, I live in the peninsula and I ask for a $40k ($2k/mo after taxes) raise to cover the rent differential to move back to sf in order to be in the office 5 days per week and companies are taken aback.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#117

Post by brezina » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

snomad wrote: post #47

I remain surprised that Bay Area tech companies don't move to Sacramento. Near the Bar Area for quick access, near the state seat of power for lobbying, well away from major faults so less prone to earthquakes, significantly lower costs of housing (2 Bdrm apt would be about $1k) - so presumably could save on salary.

um, have you been to sac? Given the choice, people (both founders of the companies & the best employees) would rather live in the bay area vs. sac. Hence the price difference. SF bay people are paying for things like: 20 min access to world class airport, one of the most human friendly climates on the planet, access to the capital of the internet & the people from around world building said internet, a stop on world tours of every major music act or performance, Ocean, Bay, coastal ranges, the ability to get to work, beach, entertainment without getting in a car, etc etc. I personally trust the wisdom of the crowd and find the best places on the planet to live/visit are often the most expensive: NYC, Copenhagen, Tokyo, Paris, Maui, Coastal Los Angeles, SF

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#118

Post by nulltype » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

jusben1369 wrote: post #86

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #4

That's ok. When Airbnb, Square, and Stripe IPO in 12-36 months, all of the people currently flooding into SF to work for them will surely be able to sell their pre-IPO shares to ... Well, I don't know, honestly. I doubt that employee #1000 at Square would even be able to pay the down payment on a SF condo with their earnings. Also, just FYI: Seattle isn't that much cheaper than SF, the people are way meaner, traffic…

Everybody is running with your Seattle humor but your comment on IPO'ing is worth discussing. 1) The reason a startup is appealing is because you're supposed to make a great low 6 or even 7 figure sum once your company goes public. 2) To achieve success you're supposed to work intensely hard and smart (@pmarca) for a short period of time (3 - 7 years) and then if you've picked successfully you'll create a really nice…

One would hope.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#119

Post by EC1 » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #101

EC1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I should keep losing money for the possibility to find another job similar to my last one so I can keep losing money?

If you are losing money, you aren't doing it right. Sure, maybe you would be better off somewhere where the competition isn't as hard, and the living costs aren't as high.

The whole context of this thread is insane rent prices, aka losing money.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#120

Post by omouse » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

minimaxir wrote: post #82

nilkn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his/her strategy of working in SF for a few months at first is not to become "super rich", but to establish a high salary that could then be "exported" to a cheaper area while staying on with the same company.

I'm reasonably sure that a decrease in CoL would be adjusted into the salary, or at the least, any company in a lower CoL is less likely to give a competitive salary.

Solution: buy a property in a lower CoL area and then rent it out to yourself. It helps if you establish a few shell and holding companies. Charge as much rent as you're paying in SF and then they can't lower your salary based on CoL because your CoL is still high. Win-win-win! ;-)