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Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

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Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#111

Post by eevilspock »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #101
relix42 wrote: post #68

I've seen quite a few reactions to the Netflix unlimited PTO policy that are similar to the reactions to the new Maternity and Paternity policy. Many of these opinions are the likes of: * "I'm suspicious of this." * "No one takes any vacation at Netflix because of this." * "Unlimited == None" * "Peer pressure means that everyone works 52 weeks a year." * "Without a PTO policy you can't cash out unused vacation. This…

Plural of anecdote is not data unless you have data :) Any Netflix-level stats?

Likewise, are all of these dismissals of Netflix's policy backed by data rather than anecdotes?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#112

Post by mikeash »

eevilspock wrote: post #110
mikeash wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why don't people just leave for months at a time? Is it because everyone understands that "unlimited" is actually "one month a year, more or less" or whatever the actual amount is?

Is it possible that in healthy environments where people are valued and value each other as people they are capable of behaving ethically and responsibly?

What's unethical about taking them at their word that vacation is "unlimited"?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#113

Post by mrep »

relix42 wrote: post #68

I've seen quite a few reactions to the Netflix unlimited PTO policy that are similar to the reactions to the new Maternity and Paternity policy. Many of these opinions are the likes of: * "I'm suspicious of this." * "No one takes any vacation at Netflix because of this." * "Unlimited == None" * "Peer pressure means that everyone works 52 weeks a year." * "Without a PTO policy you can't cash out unused vacation. This…

This and other things have sold me into applying to netflix. However, looking at your job openings, EVERYTHING has "senior" on it or "director". Literally, go check it out: https://jobs.netflix.com/jobs Does that mean I'm automatically disqualified because I am only just graduating college?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#114

Post by eevilspock »

aianus wrote: post #83

I don't see why it's your employer's job to subsidize the birth of your children with paid maternity/paternity leave. Why not just pay everyone more and those who want children can use the extra to save up to take a year off work?

For the same reason it makes sense for everyone to collectively to pay for public schools, including those who do not have kids.

In places where population growth is not a concern, such as in the U.S. where birth and deaths are at equilibrium, those who have and raise children and do it at least reasonably well are producing positive externalities[1]. And the better the children are raised and educated, the more the positive[2]. Policies like Netflix's thus benefit society as a whole.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Positive

[2] The flip side is that when children are raised poorly, be it the fault of the parent or the society that sets the parent up for failure, it turns negative.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#115

Post by aianus »

eevilspock wrote: post #114
aianus wrote: post #83

I don't see why it's your employer's job to subsidize the birth of your children with paid maternity/paternity leave. Why not just pay everyone more and those who want children can use the extra to save up to take a year off work?

For the same reason it makes sense for everyone to collectively to pay for public schools, including those who do not have kids. In places where population growth is not a concern, such as in the U.S. where birth and deaths are at equilibrium, those who have and raise children and do it at least reasonably well are producing positive externalities [1]. And the better the children are raised and educated, the more the…

A country like the US would be better served by immigration than having its own children. You could choose only the best of the best in the world to grow your population instead of throwing the genetic dice.

But that's beside the point; we don't have Netflix pay for public schools, the state does that. Similarly Netflix paying for maternity/paternity leave seems silly to me.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#116

Post by plonh »

kapitalx wrote: post #63
haswell wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working at a SV company that recently instituted an unlimited vacation policy, I can't agree more. This is probably an indication of other issues, but half of the team didn't realize there was a new policy, one team lead thought the guidance was "generally, this means about 3 weeks", the manager thought "generally, this means about 2 weeks", the actual policy states "generally, this means about 4 weeks". It apparentl…

Netflix employee here. I've been at a company that changed vacation policy to unlimited from 20 days [Nvidia] and now at netflix which has the freedom and responsibility culture and unlimited vacation policy quite established in the culture and it's a different experience. During the interview I asked our VP what he thinks of the unlimited vacation policy and his response was along the lines of `When I got back to [f…

Why not just give everyone 6 weeks vacation a year, like a civilized nation, and meter it to avoid politics?

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#117

Post by plonh »

knicholes wrote: post #62
ghughes wrote: post #16

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" vacation or leave policies because the line between reasonable and not is still there, it's just way less visible and ultimately arbitrary, depending on your management chain and workload. I can't wait for this fad to die. Let's just have generous, well-defined leave policies that don't put the onus on the employee to figure out what is OK and what isn't. "Experience shows people…

I'm suspicious that they don't specify how much vacation you get so you can't "cash out" the vacation time. I too have an unspecified amount of PTO at Adobe. Recently people have been cracked-down upon because they were taking a month off every year to go visit family back in India (without doing any work whilst there).

They cracked down when they got people using the benefit as advertised? Adobe is striking out all around these days.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#118

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee »

jrs235 wrote: post #64
userbinator wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm highly suspicious of "unlimited" anything . In practice the term usually means "there is a limit, but we won't tell you until you've almost reached it."

Or worse, "there is a limit, but we won't tell you until you've gone over it and now there are marks in your file against you."

Or "there is a hidden limit we as employers have and there is another number that all of your co-workers have for you."

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#119

Post by plonh »

mikeash wrote: post #105
CrankyFool wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hiring manager at Netflix. If one of my employees told me "I'm going to take the year off, see you in a year," I'd basically go "OK, have a great time with your kids. Send us a picture every once in a while." And then I'd backfill them. And when they got back, I'd have an extra engineer. Chances are by that point I'll be looking to expand the team anyway.

How about if it was, "I just had a kid, so I'm going to stay home to raise them, and I'll be back in 18 years, assuming they get into college"?

TFA says the policy is 1 year paid leave, with an option to work (toward promotion/bonus, i assume). not unlimited. Calling it unlimited is just nonsense.

Re: Netflix Announces Its New ‘Unlimited’ Maternity and Paternity Leave Program

#120

Post by plonh »

dglass wrote: post #75
mullen wrote: post #30

This is dumb. As others have pointed out, all it does is use peer pressure to decide what the "proper amount" of Paternity Leave is. Netflix is probably such a pressure cooker that when people need to and want to take Paternity Leave, they won't take it for fear of upsetting the group and losing their jobs. Managers will abuse it just to keep productivity up. Want to be a progressive company? Clearly define how long…

"Netflix is probably..." All you're doing is speculating. If people don't like these policies then they have the power to leave.

That is a contentless rebuttal. Obviously people choose among their options. That doesn't mean the options are optimal or efficient.
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