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The Unemployable Programmer

unemployable.pen.io

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Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#101

Post by johanneskanybal »

speeder wrote: post #60

What about people that instead NEVER had a job? I got my degree in 2009, at the height of the crisis (for now at least... here in Brazil the crisis of 2009 is finally getting worse), I NEVER had a legal job, all the stuff I put in LinkedIn were semi-legal or outright illegal stuff (or my startup). Also my programming language of choice were clearly a poor choice, I learned C, and C++ and whatnot when I was a kid (I w…

Our consulting firm sent 5 c/c++ dev's to a high profile client last month, the interview lasted 10 minutes before they instantly grabbed all of them. Anecdotal of course but choice of language is a poor excuse.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#103

Post by jcadam »

mgkimsal wrote: post #88
jcadam wrote: post #69

Hmm... I'm a 35 year old programmer and I work in Defense/Aerospace. If you think finding a good developer is hard, try finding a good developer who also holds a security clearance. If you're any good at all, you will always be employed and well compensated. The work can be dull, with Vogon-esque processes and procedures, but I have side projects to keep me sane :) Every couple of years (ok, at least every year) I'll…

Problem there is you can't just go get a security clearance - you have to be ... sponsored(?) - is that the word - by a company already. At least, that was my reading of the situation a few years back. I gave up applying to defense positions years ago because every one required existing security clearance. It's the defense industry version of "you have to have experience before we'll hire you to get the experience".

Right after I graduated with my BSCS in 2002, I went into the Army for four years (which is how I got my clearance). The only employers willing to even look at me ("if you love programming so much, why haven't you been doing it for the past four years?") were defense companies, and only because I already had a clearance. :)

We sometimes hire fresh grads without a clearance, but experienced hires are generally expected to already have them. It's not cheap (and definitely not fast) to get someone a clearance. Though, some companies/contracts/projects are probably more flexible on this, especially if they have something unclassified you can work on while they wait for your clearance to come through.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#104

Post by georgerobinson »

fringedgentian wrote: post #37

I once found myself unemployable as well, maybe what I did can help someone. This was quite a few years ago when the ColdFusion job I had just ended and the job I had before that was in Visual FoxPro (and a few other even less known technologies). Talk about unemployable. Also I am not in a major city, so I was getting pretty much no responses to my resume. After a few months I realized I was unemployable and set out…

> After a few months I realized I was unemployable and set out to change it.

First, as 20 something I can't imagine how hard it must be to wake up with the realization that you no longer have a job. Second, I think you deserve some real credit for 1. identifying that you were unemployable and 2. fixing it.

However, the real trick is identifying when you're unemployable (or even starting to get close to it) before you're unemployed. This is a game - and one that you'll never really win. But like all games: you keep playing - you get better. The trouble lies in that this is a game in which you need to be ahead of the gamemaster (that is - current and future employers).

> I do think if I found myself unemployable again I could repeat...

I want to stop you right there. I think your objective from here out is to make sure you never find yourself unemployable again - rather than waiting and/or hoping it doesn't happen.

> almost any kind of expertise in a major JavaScript framework like Angular, Ember, or React/Flux might get you a remote job fairly easily

These are valuable skills and expertise to have - and they will land you a job - but don't let it make you a one tricky pony - as that's a fast-track ticket to unemployment. I think few of these front-end frameworks will be here for the long-haul.

If I were in your shoes (of course I'm not in your shoes - it's 100% your choice) I would take what you've developed so far and start to dive into the fundamentals and then get the expertise.

For example: get to know the architectures of these frameworks: analyze and criticize them, attempt to improve them if you can; learn design patterns and identify the anti-patterns (important !); learn your algorithms - as it is these features that make you a valuable professional in the long run. Not just another PHP/JavaScript/ColdFusion dev.

Then you can wade in deeper and build up deep full-stack expertise. You could think about:

"Oh how can I optimize view rendering in Angular?" "How can I solve head-of-line blocking when using web sockets?" "What is the optimal compression algorithm in order to serve JavaScript files for mobile devices?"

I can't imagine a huge number of people think about how to solve these challenges - but I would bet that a lot of people face them.

All the other stuff is just tools to enable you to apply your expertise easier and faster.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#105

Post by Negative1 »

I'm the exact opposite -- have a shitty degree (that I'm almost a bit embarrassed about) so I leave it out of my resume. With 10+ years of solid experience I compress my resume pretty tight to fit it into 2 pages but just leave out my degree. Most people don't care and I don't have trouble getting a new job (and no I am not a 20's something hipster programmer, whatever that is).

A degree doesn't show how smart you are, it shows you have the ability to get things done (or at least show up and do your work). But guess what? So does shipping real products.

Best of luck, UP. You seem like a smart guy so keep up the perseverance and get more stuff on that resume!

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#107

Post by branchless »

mkozlows wrote: post #82

This is an absolutely baffling article. The job market for developers is not glutted by over-supply, it's one where marginally-qualified people get hired for salaries well above the national average because companies need SOMEONE to do the job. And virtually nowhere cares about degrees, especially for experienced devs. And having a single development job at a big company for a decade isn't some kind of career-killing…

Developers should realise that when you come to an interview the interviewer isn't looking to dismiss you because you can't recite Knuth. For the vast majority of jobs they are desperate for you to be competent having just interviewed 5 incompetent people. I've worked as a programmer for 3 very good paying companies over 15 years and none of them could get enough good developers.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#108

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

I see this as a result of two problems:

1: We expect everything to be perfectly packaged and ready to go, including people. We aren't interested in investing in people. A cog is a cog.

2: Older programmers are more expensive (see: skilled), and are more likely to have families or obligations that prevent their hustle (see: working bullshit hours for free).

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#109

Post by fweespeech »

mkozlows wrote: post #82

This is an absolutely baffling article. The job market for developers is not glutted by over-supply, it's one where marginally-qualified people get hired for salaries well above the national average because companies need SOMEONE to do the job. And virtually nowhere cares about degrees, especially for experienced devs. And having a single development job at a big company for a decade isn't some kind of career-killing…

> This is an absolutely baffling article. The job market for developers is not glutted by over-supply, it's one where marginally-qualified people get hired for salaries well above the national average because companies need SOMEONE to do the job. And virtually nowhere cares about degrees, especially for experienced devs.

I've had about 40-50% of places reject me due to a lack of degree. A couple even sent me hopeful follow up emails hoping I simply left it off my resume (I'm guessing they don't believe I could do what I've got on my resume without a degree I guess?).

This includes small startups from YC back when I was curious.

So please, no one, take his "no one cares" seriously. About half of companies do care about the degree.

Re: The Unemployable Programmer

#110

Post by FilterSweep »

jacknews wrote: post #64
mpermar wrote: post #47

Now, seriously, if a software engineer in his/her forties is unemployable in 2015, what the heck is an accountant, lawyer, a builder, a painter or a woodworker to just name a few? Come on. We are so lucky we did choose technology as a way of living. Sorry but stop complaining and start learning back new stuff. Can't believe what someone has to read. -- A developer in his forties.

I don't think the comparison with lawyers and accountants really works, those careers seem to reward seniority quite heavily. Perhaps for builders and painters (as in walls, not canvas), it is more appropriate, since in technology I guess programming is more equivalent to a tradesman, than an architect.

Going to have to be honest with you, there are probably strong-arm measures in firms used to prevent automation from taking the jobs away from accountants. My best friend is dealing with the CPA exams now and I can't imagine what he does cant have already been fully automated out with less workers doing Quality Assurance at a far cheaper price
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