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How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

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Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#101

Post by atomatica »

eclipxe wrote: post #28
endtime wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes also used to randomly delete music on updates. And they deliberately deleted non-iTunes Store music at one point (which AFAICT was a separate thing).

Do you have a citation on the deliberately deleting non-iTunes Store music? I've used iTunes since version 3 and updated along the way. I've NEVER had a file deleted (and 95% of my music is non-iTunes Store)

Lawsuit Claims Apple Deleted Users' Songs From iTunes Competitors

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/lawsuit-apple-delete-...

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#103

Post by JadeNB »

MichaelCrawford wrote: post #100
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I didn't downvote this, I can't see your comment as remotely relevant to a story about an iCloud syncing bug.

My point is that data loss can lead to more than inconvenience and expense, it can lead to the loss of cherished, irreplaceable memories. While I have since backed up my friend's photos, there are ways they could have been lost forever.

What is the relevance of the bit about AMCC? I don't ask with hostility; I really can't figure it out.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#104

Post by [deleted] »

atomatica wrote: post #101
eclipxe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a citation on the deliberately deleting non-iTunes Store music? I've used iTunes since version 3 and updated along the way. I've NEVER had a file deleted (and 95% of my music is non-iTunes Store)

Lawsuit Claims Apple Deleted Users' Songs From iTunes Competitors http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/lawsuit-apple-delete-...

[deleted]

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#105

Post by Retra »

coliveira wrote: post #86
imron wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X was mighty fine. It's been getting progressively worse in my opinion.

I use Mac OS X for more than 10 years and I have seen no problem other than normal sporadic bugs that are always fixed in the next minor version. I don't see any reason to believe that it got worse over the years.

I've been using OS X for under a year, and I've run into two major problem that, in my opinion, are completely inexcusable.

* Trying to save files in Pages/Numbers, I get an error "Cannot save file. File does not exist." (Well of course it doesn't exist, I haven't saved it yet!) Lost several hours of work multiple times because I couldn't save files. And that is a total shit error message.

* Trying to move folders on a remote server. I get a dialog that says "Finder wants to make changes" and asks for my admin password. (What changes? WTF?) Files got deleted when moved. And also a total shit 'warning' message.

OS X is far more frustrating and useless than any other OS I've ever used. It doesn't give reasonable error messages, and it doesn't keep your stuff safe. It's a confusing minefield.

As long as everything I do is in a non-Apple application, I can get things done. And don't even get me started on OS X mouse support.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#106

Post by sbuk »

rsync wrote: post #96
coldtea wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything really worse about it. That's just what people like to say without any quantifiable metrics (usually just with some random data points about this or that bug, but not quantifiably compared to previous releases). Millions of people use it everyday for professional work, including in film and music studios, where stability and timely performance are much more paramount than for some corporate cubic…

"Plus the upcoming release is a "Snow Leopard" like bugfix affair too, which will help things." It is ? You are referring to Yosemite ? Genuinely curious...

El Capitain is the next release.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#107

Post by MichaelCrawford »

JadeNB wrote: post #103
MichaelCrawford wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that data loss can lead to more than inconvenience and expense, it can lead to the loss of cherished, irreplaceable memories. While I have since backed up my friend's photos, there are ways they could have been lost forever.

What is the relevance of the bit about AMCC? I don't ask with hostility; I really can't figure it out.

My apologies, I will edit to make my point clear.

A common application of RAID is fault-tolerant storage.

If one does not test one's product in the same configuration as used by one's customers, one's customers may find a failure mode that one's tests are incapable of finding. In AMCC's case I was concerned about the Special Magic that Apple used to convert 64-bit system calls to 32-bit.

The opinion of the engineer who originally wrote the driver I maintained was that a 32-bit tool was sufficient to test a 32-bit driver.

My opinion is that a 64-bit tool was required to test Apple's Special Magic. I have found and reported numerous bugs in Apple's kernels, all but two were promptly fixed.

I struggled to convince Apple to fix the other two, but was refused. One was fixed a year later after someone else reported it, the other is a spectacular zero-day that I could exploit in a heartbeat but I won't tell you what it is not so much because Apple refuses to fix it but because the fix would break a lot of existing code.

In 1990 I was testing MacTCP 1.0.1 or maybe 1.1. My manager Bruce Southwick suggested I beta test A/UX 2.0, in large part so I could help with A/UX' MacTCP emulation which was a wrapper around Berkeley sockets.

Among the first things I did was to verify A/UX' compliance with each of the CERT recommendations. When I found a security hole I dropped a dime to some random A/UX team member:

"May I speak to your Security Manager?"

"What's a Security Manager?"

Me and the A/UX people went back and forth for quite a long time until I attached a 12 or maybe 15 line remote root exploit to a Radar bug report. I then blasted an eMail all over G-d's Creation that pointed out that "The United States Air Force isn't going to want to pay seventy million dollars for this."

Their reply?

"We'll let the Air Force take care of it."

I could have fixed the zero day in ten minutes without breaking anything whatsover. Even so it was not fixed until A/UX 3.0.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#108

Post by DanBC »

Retra wrote: post #105
coliveira wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Mac OS X for more than 10 years and I have seen no problem other than normal sporadic bugs that are always fixed in the next minor version. I don't see any reason to believe that it got worse over the years.

I've been using OS X for under a year, and I've run into two major problem that, in my opinion, are completely inexcusable. * Trying to save files in Pages/Numbers, I get an error "Cannot save file. File does not exist." (Well of course it doesn't exist, I haven't saved it yet!) Lost several hours of work multiple times because I couldn't save files. And that is a total shit error message. * Trying to move folders on…

> OS X is far more frustrating and useless than any other OS I've ever used. It doesn't give reasonable error messages, and it doesn't keep your stuff safe. It's a confusing minefield.

All software sucks. The only reason you think OSX sucks more than other OSs is because you haven't had time to discover the work-arounds for annoying buggy behaviour.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#109

Post by Gigablah »

Retra wrote: post #105
coliveira wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Mac OS X for more than 10 years and I have seen no problem other than normal sporadic bugs that are always fixed in the next minor version. I don't see any reason to believe that it got worse over the years.

I've been using OS X for under a year, and I've run into two major problem that, in my opinion, are completely inexcusable. * Trying to save files in Pages/Numbers, I get an error "Cannot save file. File does not exist." (Well of course it doesn't exist, I haven't saved it yet!) Lost several hours of work multiple times because I couldn't save files. And that is a total shit error message. * Trying to move folders on…

My MBP tends to lose connection with my external trackpad after coming back from sleep. In fact, Bluetooth stops responding entirely.

The only way to fix it AFAIK is to reboot. (Doesn't that remind you of Windows?)

My colleagues have encountered the same issue.

Re: How Apple’s iCloud Drive deletes your files without warning

#110

Post by martin-adams »

madeofpalk wrote: post #89
martin-adams wrote: post #22

I think it is safe to say that Apple iCloud is not a backup product, but merely a file synchronisation tool. I never liked the idea of stub files with tools like this. I used Livedrive a few years ago and the whole stub files gives a false sense of security. The only benefit it provided was I could double click the stub file and prioritise the download.

But I don't think the user was using it as a backup, it was using it as a storage product. As in, I'm working on a file across multiple devices, so I'm going to store it in iCloud Drive so everything is kept up to date. Theoretically.

I do understand that, hence why I was highlighting that if anyone were to think this tool will cover you for data loss, it wont.

Personally, any product that allows accidental deletion in one place that gets synchronised across all devices is a bad, bad thing. It only takes one virus or rogue app to delete the contents of a directory and the iCloud software will do it's thing and spread it.

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