Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work • Hacker News Board

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#101

Post by joesmo » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

notNow wrote: post #87

mgkimsal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I don't drink alcohol in social situations much - typically not as a lunch beverage with team mates - for 1 primary reason: I don't like the taste. I have no moral objections against a glass of beer or wine with a meal, and occasionally will have a glass of wine with a dinner (usually not, because I'm normally driving somewhere as well). I've done the 'go to lunch' during an interview, and beer came u…

If you don't like the taste of beer or alcoholic beverages for the matter is fine with me and I'd like to clarify that I don't have prob either with the religious cop-out but you'll have to forgive me if I get you under more scrutiny just to ensure that you fit well within the inclusive environment because from my experience religious people esp. from certain backgrounds (let's stick with PC for now not to inflame th…

That's called religious discrimination and no, we don't have to forgive you for it.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#102

Post by spacemanmatt » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:43 PM UTC

xaybey wrote: post #71

arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.

I have a life that I put down hobbies for. It would be unfair to call my kids, my love life, social events with friends, and keeping up with my necessary life (bills, laundry, groceries, etc.) hobbies. But that's all I have time for, after I hold down a regular job. It's just plain ignorant for younger teams to expect a rockstar in AND out of the office.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#103

Post by spacemanmatt » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

ovi256 wrote: post #47

arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

Talking about a hobby as if you still do it, in order to get the job and provide for your family, is not a lie anyone sane would say matters. Next time, don't sweat it.

Sure, we all know how to get the job. That doesn't make the expectation or the question less specious.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#104

Post by ExpiredLink » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #96

xaybey wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand not drinking and not playing video games, but saying that you have no hobbies would be pretty weird in an interview. They're just trying to get to know you. Hopefully you follow it up with some personal detail that distinguishes you from a robot.

I hate the hobbies question in interviews. I work 60 hours a week and have a toddler. My hobby is sleeping. What the hell else else do you want from me?

I have a bike which I rarely ride. My interview hobby is cycling (reading books also works). Silly questions deserve silly answers.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#105

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

notNow wrote: post #58

arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

May I ask what's your objection to drinking beer? The reason I ask because some people abstain for religious reasons and I seriously don't relish the company of fundie folks around me because from experience over time they won't settle for exercising just their own rights but till they impose or restrict other people's rights or make them at least feel very uncomfortable in the workplace.

[deleted]

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#106

Post by ams6110 » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

notNow wrote: post #58

arenaninja wrote: post #24

The article is spot on. In tech, cultural fit means one of several things. Some time ago at a company, we were considering candidates when the most senior software developer left. We went through two weeks of interviews, and I recommended we go with the strongest technical candidate because his experience was very obvious. The employer flat out said that he wouldn't fit because he was too old. When I raised my eyebro…

May I ask what's your objection to drinking beer? The reason I ask because some people abstain for religious reasons and I seriously don't relish the company of fundie folks around me because from experience over time they won't settle for exercising just their own rights but till they impose or restrict other people's rights or make them at least feel very uncomfortable in the workplace.

I worked at a company once that had a subset of employees that were very devout Christians. They would get together before lunch for prayer and that sort of thing, were friendly and welcoming but they never pushed it on anyone else and really didn't talk about it unless someone else raised the subject. They were all smart and got things done and it wasn't a problem.

Honestly your comment sounds very similar to what people say about working with any cultural or racial group they are biased against.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#107

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

ta92929 wrote: post #45

raindev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the issue is as simple as that. Here is more on the topic: https://subfictional.com/2012/07/02/language-matters-stop-us...

The strangest part of that article is this: I understand how ingrained the “guys” habit might be for some of you. It was for me. After several months of concerted, conscious effort, I still slip and say it on oc- casion. So even the author herself used the word with completely gender neutral intent, but then she insists that others can't. It's like she's looking for reasons to be offended.

[deleted]

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#108

Post by joesmo » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

raindev wrote: post #27

chapium wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on context. "I'm going to go hang out with the guys." yes, exclusive. "Hey guys, I'm going to work." not exclusive. Try focusing on the meaning being conveyed and not the glyphs representing it.

I don't think the issue is as simple as that. Here is more on the topic: https://subfictional.com/2012/07/02/language-matters-stop-us...

I don't know where this author comes from, but obviously not the Northeast or West coasts of the US where "guys" has been used to refer to mixed gender groups for decades. It's no different that "y'all" which is more popular in other parts of the country. Words and phrases change meaning all the time. The essay fails to understand such a simple concept and is just plain stupid because of it.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#109

Post by jrs235 » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

jrs235 wrote: post #72

notNow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask what's your objection to drinking beer? The reason I ask because some people abstain for religious reasons and I seriously don't relish the company of fundie folks around me because from experience over time they won't settle for exercising just their own rights but till they impose or restrict other people's rights or make them at least feel very uncomfortable in the workplace.

I think the objection can also be from the group... Candidate doesn't drink beer [ADD: or care about craft beer], we don't think we'll get along so don't hire them. ADD: Which is a ridiculous reason to give a group to reject a candidate. Please see my idea pertaining to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9760639

If the group asks "Why don't you drink beer?" And the candidate says "I'm a recovering alcoholic." You just uncovered protected class. You better be darn sure them not drinking wasnt factored in to why you didn't/don't hire them.

Re: Guess Who Doesn’t Fit in at Work

#110

Post by nitrogen » Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 4:56 PM UTC

reagency wrote: post #97

IvyMike wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough on an interview to get a feel for how a person is in day-to-day conversation. So the interviewers are looking for areas of common interest to talk about. If they are young, they may have a limited repertoire of topics that usually work; if you shut down all of their ideas for conversation, I hope you at least tried to come up with some topics of your own. Otherwise, you won't have a conversation, and they…

Thank you for illustrating what is wrong with "culture fit". There is no need to require candidates to be buds with the team. " maturity" "Professionalism" used to be a virtue that adults aspired to, until young adults decided to hack the system and turn the "Good ol' boys" club into a "good youn' boys" club.

Professionalism can be dehumanizing just as camaraderie can be alienating. I don't think either, alone, is a virtue. We need both to communicate and work effectively.