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SpaceX cleared for US military launches

bbc.co.uk

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Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#101

Post by stefantalpalaru »

datamingle wrote: post #92
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different frequency means that all the existing GPS hardware won't work with the new network. > I fail to see any corruption. http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/221020... http://www.itworld.com/article/2792924/data-center/secret-u-... http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/08/world.internationa... http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1145904

Yes, if you want to use a new network operator you would need to purchase new hardware for it. That happens all the time everywhere. I don't see the big problem. All of those links do not point to any corruption. Budget overruns that are usual with large govt. contracts. And other links with hard negotiations with US officials over the already resolved issue with Galileo wanting to use the same frequency. They have a…

> All of those links do not point to any corruption.

What, you think the CEO of a company benefiting from a project would go badmouth it to the project's enemies without any incentive? The guy was sacked the minute that embassy cable came out: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-12212525

Why do you think that the disapproval of the US Deputy Secretary of Defense is enough to almost kill a EU project? Those sons of bitches had our sons of bitches by their short and curlies. And it's not for any military alliance reason, because the US doesn't have allies - only enemies it kind of tolerates.

Read those links, they paint a pretty clear picture.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#102

Post by xixixao »

shit_parade2 wrote: post #100
yc1010 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The US is no different or infact worse" is a typical argument used to justify various Putinite wrongdoings and deflect discussion. Just go to /r/worldnews for a taste on reddit. * Russia aggressively annexing its neighbors? Hey look over there at the US and Middle East * Russia curbing various freedoms and opposition? Sure the US is a 2 party system where there is no hope for change. * Putin gaining complete control…

>* Russia curbing various freedoms and opposition? Sure the US is a 2 party system where there is no hope for change. Now this comment depresses me. Why not compare the us patriot act or civil forfeiture, or the wide spread illegal 4th amendment breaking mass surveillance program a whistle blower had to reveal (who incidentally lives in Russia now). Then you use the phrase hope and change, is that satire, a man becam…

Look, the problem here is you are comparing bad with really really bad. People aren't defending the US via Russia here, people are saying don't defend Russia via the US.

Can you really imagine USA invading Mexico to extend its area of influence?

Facebook is filled with anti-US and anti-western arguments. VKontakte is filled with love for Putin. Apples to apples here...

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#103

Post by ianstallings »

shiggerino wrote: post #82

What exactly are the national security implications of using Russian engines? That it will combine and burn fuel and oxidizer like a stinking, dirty commie?

The ban is for a specific engine, the RD-180. It's a response to the action Russia took in Crimea, so it's political and they're not hiding that fact. It's related to the national security the same way that waving the flag is. Not at all. Or completely. Depending on your viewpoint.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#104

Post by shit_parade2 »

xixixao wrote: post #102
shit_parade2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Russia curbing various freedoms and opposition? Sure the US is a 2 party system where there is no hope for change. Now this comment depresses me. Why not compare the us patriot act or civil forfeiture, or the wide spread illegal 4th amendment breaking mass surveillance program a whistle blower had to reveal (who incidentally lives in Russia now). Then you use the phrase hope and change, is that satire, a man becam…

Look, the problem here is you are comparing bad with really really bad. People aren't defending the US via Russia here, people are saying don't defend Russia via the US. Can you really imagine USA invading Mexico to extend its area of influence? Facebook is filled with anti-US and anti-western arguments. VKontakte is filled with love for Putin. Apples to apples here...

Try to at least study history. The US has a long history of staging coups and invading with special forces Latin American countries.

My point is they are both so bad that saying one is really really bad is like Dante discussing why the third circle of Hell isn't as bad as the fourth. Pointless academic nonsense, except the jingoistic RaRa America nonsense is killing hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#105

Post by stcredzero »

yc1010 wrote: post #16
nraynaud wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Putin, Andropov, Chernenko, same stuff.

Not really. I was born and lived during the dying days of the USSR in 80s (left in mid 90s) Under communism everyone knew the system was a failure and everything was a sham, hell the jokes being made were hilarious. Now on the other hand in last few years everything in Russia under Tsar Putin went full retard mode with people actually believing the unashamed propaganda that the state controlled media puts out. Many R…

Now on the other hand in last few years everything in Russia under Tsar Putin went full retard mode with people actually believing the unashamed propaganda that the state controlled media puts out.

Nationalism > Communism

Solidarity with the working man is nothing compared to the integrity of the Russian nation and her borders.

Nationalism and borderline fascism is the order of the day 70 years after the war. My grandfather must be spinning in his grave.

The core of the "Great Patriotic War" was nationalism. No one really fights for an idea. Everyone starts fighting to protect their home, and keeps fighting for the sake of their brothers in arms.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#106

Post by sqeaky »

shit_parade2 wrote: post #99
sqeaky wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this whole thread exists because an American company, SpaceX, led by a foreign national who chose to become a US citizen, Elon Musk, could create a company that competes directly with government run competitors here and nowhere else. There are superficial similarities. But any investigation shows real difference.

By contracting with the US military Musk has explicitly joined the military industrial complex, an arrangement akin to Mussolini's corporate-fascism, little different from a nationalized company in practice except there isn't even the facade that profits are shared. Profits are privatized once Musk has sucked off enough public wealth through government by building various machines designed in aid in the killing of pe…

> military industrial complex

This phrase shows a simplified few events and organizations as they actually are. The rest of your post shows a fanatical viewpoint lacking in critical thought.

I will agree with you insofar as not everything is ideal with our military spending, the amount of spending and there is some corruption in military spending.

But the government and military must buy goods, this cannot always be fascism. There exists procedures and regulations that attempt limit corruption and to level the playing field for smaller companies. These rules are exactly what SpaceX used to get its foot the door. These rules require certain levels of "quality" and meeting certain requirements, this in effect rules out many of the smallest startups which contributes to why it is so easy for us to feel like outsiders. The smallest company I have seen provide military goods was 12 people, but most require at least 100.

The military also has other functions than "killing of women and children for profit", and claiming that this is one of their goals without evidence strikes me as fanatical. A military that wastes resources on things other than valid enemy targets is wasteful, we have defeated too many foreign powers to be that kind of wasteful.

I think our current military is built more along the lines of "kill the enemy and break his things". It is sad but sometimes innocent people are near the enemy or his things. It is also sad that we try to use our very effective "breaking" organization to occupy or police despite it not being well equipped for such.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#107

Post by jessaustin »

engi_nerd wrote: post #85
ceejayoz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seem to be a wide variety of concerns on the capability front. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_...

I think somewhere else on HN today there was mention of the famous discussion between Kissinger and Ellsberg about how the world seems different when you have access to information that most people don't. I think most people that work on the F-35 feel that way.

I don't get your meaning here. Do those people feel like the typical high-clearance honcho that Ellsberg described, or like Ellsberg himself with the wisdom of years?

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#108

Post by shit_parade2 »

sqeaky wrote: post #106
shit_parade2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By contracting with the US military Musk has explicitly joined the military industrial complex, an arrangement akin to Mussolini's corporate-fascism, little different from a nationalized company in practice except there isn't even the facade that profits are shared. Profits are privatized once Musk has sucked off enough public wealth through government by building various machines designed in aid in the killing of pe…

> military industrial complex This phrase shows a simplified few events and organizations as they actually are. The rest of your post shows a fanatical viewpoint lacking in critical thought. I will agree with you insofar as not everything is ideal with our military spending, the amount of spending and there is some corruption in military spending. But the government and military must buy goods, this cannot always be…

Without evidence? It is true the US military refuses to count civilian murders and quaintly calls it collateral damage, as if brown kids are but roads and bridges.

What do you call 14 years of war in multiple theaters resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths? It that not fanatical? You should reassess your heart, you're in need of a new one.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#109

Post by tsotha »

sqeaky wrote: post #106
shit_parade2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By contracting with the US military Musk has explicitly joined the military industrial complex, an arrangement akin to Mussolini's corporate-fascism, little different from a nationalized company in practice except there isn't even the facade that profits are shared. Profits are privatized once Musk has sucked off enough public wealth through government by building various machines designed in aid in the killing of pe…

> military industrial complex This phrase shows a simplified few events and organizations as they actually are. The rest of your post shows a fanatical viewpoint lacking in critical thought. I will agree with you insofar as not everything is ideal with our military spending, the amount of spending and there is some corruption in military spending. But the government and military must buy goods, this cannot always be…

>I think our current military is built more along the lines of "kill the enemy and break his things".

That's what militaries are for. Once you deviate from that core idea you end up with an expensive boondoggle that can't win battles.

Re: SpaceX cleared for US military launches

#110

Post by tsotha »

shiggerino wrote: post #82

What exactly are the national security implications of using Russian engines? That it will combine and burn fuel and oxidizer like a stinking, dirty commie?

It's a question of supply reliability. You don't want to depend on a system which may or may not be available depending on things beyond your control. That's true of any supplier, foreign or domestic.
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