Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#101

Post by cpeterso » Fri, May 22, 2015, 11:26 PM UTC

sayhello wrote: post #80

ama729 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your first link: > This is still one of our early steps towards our goal of improving the state of digital advertising for the Web – delivering greater transparency for advertisers, better, more relevant content experiences and, above all, greater control for Firefox users. At least one would hope they could be honest in their goal, I don't think anybody care about the state of digital advertising except markete…

Hi, I'm an engineer on the team working on Tiles at Mozilla. It may sounds strange, but this is really our honest goal. We want to change the ad industry. The ad industry in its current state is built on foundations we think don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea of abusing cookies, a useful technology, to track where users go around the internet so that the data can be traded, so that others can make guesses…

> We have to face it, the internet wouldn't thrive without ad-tech. Not many people are willing or able to pay for content. The digital ad industry is important and is here to stay.

How are ads in the browser relevant to websites that depend on ads for their revenue?

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#102

Post by Nadya » Fri, May 22, 2015, 11:32 PM UTC

sayhello wrote: post #80

ama729 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your first link: > This is still one of our early steps towards our goal of improving the state of digital advertising for the Web – delivering greater transparency for advertisers, better, more relevant content experiences and, above all, greater control for Firefox users. At least one would hope they could be honest in their goal, I don't think anybody care about the state of digital advertising except markete…

Hi, I'm an engineer on the team working on Tiles at Mozilla. It may sounds strange, but this is really our honest goal. We want to change the ad industry. The ad industry in its current state is built on foundations we think don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea of abusing cookies, a useful technology, to track where users go around the internet so that the data can be traded, so that others can make guesses…

>The ad industry in its current state is built on foundations we think don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea of abusing cookies, a useful technology, to track where users go around the internet so that the data can be traded, so that others can make guesses about what ads to show... sounds a bit in need of a change.

And how do you propose this would stop that?

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#103

Post by cpeterso » Fri, May 22, 2015, 11:35 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #42

I hate ads. I love Mozilla. I understand Mozilla needs the money. I don't mind supporting them with cash. Why not have a freemium option for folks to subscribe to Firefox and hide the ads?

I'd like to see a "Firefox subscription", a monthly automatic donation model like NPR and PBS use. Give people who "subscribe" a custom Firefox theme to show off that they're supporters (like KQED bumper stickers on Volvos ;).

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#104

Post by pdkl95 » Fri, May 22, 2015, 11:47 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #18

nodata wrote: post #2

Bye Firefox. Edit: "We promise to put you first and never sell your personal data. What else do you want for the Web?" -- https://twitter.com/firefox/status/461550580729536512 Don't collect my personal data.

The data is collected in the browser, same as it ever was. The history is not sent to Mozilla's servers - it's the browser that locally chooses and fetches the tiles. The tiles are grouped based on multiple servers, so the fact that your browser requested a specific tile doesn't directly tell them which site you actually visited. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1120311

It just leaks which category of sites I've been visits.

Why is it so hard to understand that leaking any bits not necessary for the retrieval and presentation of the link I clicked on is absolutely unacceptable? Anything that sends data that could not be learned form the server logs is spyware and will be treated as such.

Some companies like to claim that this spying is necessary because the data is useful. I'm sure it is, just like I'm sure a thief find the goods they stole to be useful. For similar reasons claims - like your explanation of this firefox misfeature - relating to the amount of bits leaked are not actualy a defense.

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#105

Post by rfk » Sat, May 23, 2015, 6:57 AM UTC

cpeterso wrote: post #101

sayhello wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I'm an engineer on the team working on Tiles at Mozilla. It may sounds strange, but this is really our honest goal. We want to change the ad industry. The ad industry in its current state is built on foundations we think don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea of abusing cookies, a useful technology, to track where users go around the internet so that the data can be traded, so that others can make guesses…

> We have to face it, the internet wouldn't thrive without ad-tech. Not many people are willing or able to pay for content. The digital ad industry is important and is here to stay. How are ads in the browser relevant to websites that depend on ads for their revenue?

It's not hard to imagine how this concept could expand to the web at large. Rather than deciding what ad to display by consulting a user profile built on cross-site history tracking, a site could simply ask the browser for advice on what to show, without the site having to learn anything in particular about the user.

Good for the site because they get better advice; good for the user because they get more privacy and control.

(I've nothing to do with the team behind this at Mozilla, and have no idea what their roadmap actually is. But it's pretty clear that this is just a first step in a broader version of re-inventing advertising on the web, not a stand-alone attempt to generate a bit more revenue).

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#106

Post by vdaniuk » Sat, May 23, 2015, 9:04 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #100

vdaniuk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't sell your personal information, it provides access to your eyeballs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/23/nsa-prism-costs... They most certainly do when there are national security letters involved. You may argue that this was not Google's fault - it is uncertain how much choice they had with regards to providing access for PRISM, and they're welcome to the tiny compensation they received. The point is that they had the data at all, thus allowing it to be copied y others, rega…

I agree that it is a valid concern but it doesn't support the "Google sells user data" premise without reductio ad absurdum.

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#107

Post by _up » Sat, May 23, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

soylentcola wrote: post #88

vdaniuk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't sell your personal information, it provides access to your eyeballs.

Yeah, I hear this a lot but I've never seen anything that suggests they sell info to any third party. If I'm wrong about this I'm definitely interested in reading about it so I can adjust my stance on it. As far as I can tell, the idea has always been the same: more relevant ads means less ads needed to make the same revenue and cost businesses less in wasted ad budget. The "old method" was to just make your ads more…

Do you really think that if google gets the chance to earn a lot more money, if they refer only healthy people to insurance A and the rest to insurance B. That there is no chance they woudn't do it? Google could probably destroy other insurances this way.

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#108

Post by _up » Sat, May 23, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC

lmorchard wrote: post #92

FWIW, I work at Mozilla, but I don't work on this particular project. But, I care because I What I think a lot of folks are missing here is that this is an attempt to change how ads are done. Whether you like it or not, ads are how most of the web gets funded right now. Yes, funding Mozilla would be nice. Even better would be if ads on the web in general were less intrusive and better respected privacy. One of the th…

Why not go further and give the money earned with ads in firefox to the user. Who can then use this to directly buy webservices. This could also automaticly be brokered by the browser. This could make webservices a comodity and give back power to the user.

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#109

Post by cpeterso » Sat, May 23, 2015, 7:44 PM UTC

rfk wrote: post #105

cpeterso wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have to face it, the internet wouldn't thrive without ad-tech. Not many people are willing or able to pay for content. The digital ad industry is important and is here to stay. How are ads in the browser relevant to websites that depend on ads for their revenue?

It's not hard to imagine how this concept could expand to the web at large. Rather than deciding what ad to display by consulting a user profile built on cross-site history tracking, a site could simply ask the browser for advice on what to show, without the site having to learn anything in particular about the user. Good for the site because they get better advice; good for the user because they get more privacy and…

Back in 2013, Mozilla Labs had been experimenting with a similar idea, a feature called "User Personalization" (UP). It was an API that get web content access to (user-controlled) user interest keywords, but AFAIK nothing came of the project.

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/07/25/up-with-people/

EDIT: Looks like the "Firefox Interest Dashboard" add-on is a more recent exploration of this idea, letting you explore the categorization of your own local browsing history:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-inter...

Re: Firefox will show ads on the new tab page based on browsing history

#110

Post by celticfighter » Sat, May 23, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

sayhello wrote: post #80

ama729 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your first link: > This is still one of our early steps towards our goal of improving the state of digital advertising for the Web – delivering greater transparency for advertisers, better, more relevant content experiences and, above all, greater control for Firefox users. At least one would hope they could be honest in their goal, I don't think anybody care about the state of digital advertising except markete…

Hi, I'm an engineer on the team working on Tiles at Mozilla. It may sounds strange, but this is really our honest goal. We want to change the ad industry. The ad industry in its current state is built on foundations we think don't make sense. For instance, the whole idea of abusing cookies, a useful technology, to track where users go around the internet so that the data can be traded, so that others can make guesses…

How about bringing back Power user features instead of bloating the browser with ads, chat and social networking features?

How about delivering again something for power users which does NOT require add-on installs aka toolbar customization or moving buttons where i want to have them? Or.. how about offering features for both user target groups like it was able until Firefox 22 before you started to remove features because of simple users? How about that?

But you do not care and you are not interested in this! Here is my answer.. Moving to Seamonkey as main browser and to Vivaldi. The later one may be closed source but that developers have at least a brain and know how to handle power users!

And i also quit donating for you month after month and make sure everyone i know is uninstalling your browser.

Btw. the big computer trader of my town is also not supporting Firefox because of your treatment of advanced users! He now only installs Firefox if there is some extra payment!

Congratulations, you anger both loyal users and technology advocates!