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Join the Engineering Leisure Class

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Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#101

Post by jnem »

vinceguidry wrote: post #21

> Luckily, there’s a corner of the Internet dedicated to breaking the link between “comfort” and money. The problem with this is that it moves in the wrong direction. You spent all this time learning how to earn more money for your time. Then what do you do after you earn a bunch of money? Figure out how to trade your time for money again, just in different arenas? Why, so you can avoid having to spend more time doin…

Sorry, but i cant find a reference to what MMM means anywhere. Im guessing you guys aren't talking about the Moon Miners Manifesto.. or talking about enjoying something "mmm.mmm.mmm"

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#102

Post by fapjacks »

gohrt wrote: post #81
ChrisLoer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, he's a pretty impressive example of independence, although I don't think either the million dollars or the parrots are truly necessary!

RMS is not independent. He is interdependent. He relies heavily on the community for housing when he travels.

... Which he has paid for many times over, IMHO. He's always got a place to stay in my town, anyways.

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#103

Post by lemdj »

jnem wrote: post #101
vinceguidry wrote: post #21

> Luckily, there’s a corner of the Internet dedicated to breaking the link between “comfort” and money. The problem with this is that it moves in the wrong direction. You spent all this time learning how to earn more money for your time. Then what do you do after you earn a bunch of money? Figure out how to trade your time for money again, just in different arenas? Why, so you can avoid having to spend more time doin…

Sorry, but i cant find a reference to what MMM means anywhere. Im guessing you guys aren't talking about the Moon Miners Manifesto.. or talking about enjoying something "mmm.mmm.mmm"

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#104

Post by Compulsion »

jnem wrote: post #101
vinceguidry wrote: post #21

> Luckily, there’s a corner of the Internet dedicated to breaking the link between “comfort” and money. The problem with this is that it moves in the wrong direction. You spent all this time learning how to earn more money for your time. Then what do you do after you earn a bunch of money? Figure out how to trade your time for money again, just in different arenas? Why, so you can avoid having to spend more time doin…

Sorry, but i cant find a reference to what MMM means anywhere. Im guessing you guys aren't talking about the Moon Miners Manifesto.. or talking about enjoying something "mmm.mmm.mmm"

Mustache Money or something. The guy he mentions in the article.

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#105

Post by falcolas »

zrail wrote: post #68
falcolas wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the MMM manifesto would never work for me - it basically says that I would have to be setting aside over 90% of my income (given my salary range), which wouldn't allow for things like a newer car, owning a house over 300 sq. ft., or traveling to Arizona to visit relatives. Personally, I refuse to give up my life today for the possibility of a life tomorrow. There's too few guarantees that there will be a tomorr…

That's not really what MMM espouses, from what I've been able to tell (I've actually spent the better part of the last month devouring his blog and the forums). MMM's point is that, if you live well within your means and can save 50% of your income (however you choose to define that, but most people do after-tax), you can "retire" after a short number of years. "Retirement" is very much however you want to define it,…

> if you live well within your means

Which they define as no morgage. No car loans. No TV. "Fuck cleanliness". "Luxury is a weakness". Fix your own car. Don't use AC in Phoenix (?!).

> your previous investments can take care of your lower-than-average expenses

How can, to use MMM's numbers, 17 years of living on 50% income somehow support 50-70 years of living on that other 50%? His answer? Drop your spending by another 50-75%, and hope you can get 7% returns on your investment[0].

Even MMM isn't doing that. He's living currently on about 25k a year, which is a over 25% of his starting income, and certainly more than the 4% he advocates above (unless he was putting away $125,000 a year for those 5 years, in addition to paying off his $400,000 morgage). If he can't live by his own advice without selling his house, selling his family heirlooms[1], how does he expect others to do it?

> MMM promotes freedom

Freedom from what? Enjoying your working years? Personally, I spent many, many years living on less than $25,000 a year. It sucked, it's certainly not the life I want to "retire to".

[0]http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05/29/how-much-do-i-need... [1]http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/08/22/how_to_sell_silver...

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#106

Post by jnem »

lemdj wrote: post #103
jnem wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but i cant find a reference to what MMM means anywhere. Im guessing you guys aren't talking about the Moon Miners Manifesto.. or talking about enjoying something "mmm.mmm.mmm"

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

Ahh, there we go, context. Thanks!

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#107

Post by j_lev »

mndrix wrote: post #90

I've been doing this for 8 years and love it. I'm married with 5 kids. We live in rural Wyoming (no income tax, bought a comfortable house for $86k). We've always lived well below our income so we have no debt and sufficient savings. I mostly choose to work on "products". That helps me focus on problems that people actually care about without any of the startup pressures. Although, I've also written several open sour…

Hi - thanks for sharing and congratulations - sounds like you've made things work.

> I spent Fridays working on a cool idea my brother and I had. That idea proved useful enough to pay the bills so I quit my job.

Regarding this, it sounds like you already had a good idea of what your expenses were, and I think people underestimate how important this is.

I recently quit my job and have jumped into the unknown. Firstly knowing where all my money was going, and secondly spending about 12 months trimming off all the fat was an important part of the process to give me the confidence to try this. These days I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world with my wife for about $2000/month (and over half of that is rent). We want for little. Several years ago this figure was closer to $4000/month.

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#108

Post by MisterWalter »

It always drives me crazy when people that make 50k+ a year complain about not having money. I live on about $500-$600 a month and I'm fine. Granted, not everyone is ablebodied and living within biking distance of their school/work, but most certainly could be, especially with a little effort.

Not needing money is incredibly liberating, I advise everyone to just try it for a year.

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#109

Post by s73v3r »

MisterWalter wrote: post #108

It always drives me crazy when people that make 50k+ a year complain about not having money. I live on about $500-$600 a month and I'm fine. Granted, not everyone is ablebodied and living within biking distance of their school/work, but most certainly could be, especially with a little effort. Not needing money is incredibly liberating, I advise everyone to just try it for a year.

In many places, living within biking/walking distance of school/work means rent goes up exponentially.

Re: Join the Engineering Leisure Class

#110

Post by corford »

Flip-per wrote: post #85
walshemj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not in most eu country's ok recent immigrants may have to have a short period of paying into the system. When I was out of work in the UK I signed on to keep my NI record up to date as they only account full years

In the UK you lose your unemployment insurance benefits and thus the health insurance after ~30 weeks (source: http://ec.europa.eu/social/BlobServlet?docId=10852&langId=en ) Average for EU countries is ~50 weeks. That's not long if you do not want to work for money for the rest of your life.

In the UK, healthcare is free regardless of employment status. You don't need health insurance.
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