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Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

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Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#101

Post by sheepmullet »

curun1r wrote: post #92
michaelochurch wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, part of it is certainly that they're the cheap 'n' shitty option. However, when you weigh the money saved against the loss of productivity, they're not worth it. Open-plan offices aren't collaborative. Open-Plan Syndrome actually makes people more selfish and misanthropic. When people don't feel in control of their space (and what makes open-plan so bad isn't just the awfulness of the environment, but how fucking…

There are different kinds of collaboration and you're taking a very narrow view of it. Open offices might suck for explicit collaboration, like pairing, but for the type of collaboration that happens somewhat randomly, they're basically the only option. What I'm talking about mostly manifests itself in overheard conversations where someone who wasn't initially part of the conversation realizes they can add valuable c…

"What I'm talking about mostly manifests itself in overheard conversations where someone who wasn't initially part of the conversation realizes they can add valuable context and joins in."

Which only works when staff are half listening to most conversations. Which means they are distracted for pretty much the entire day.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#102

Post by Symbiote »

icebraining wrote: post #93
nextos wrote: post #2

Things are getting so insane that even some top universities have open-plan offices. Am I supposed to prove theorems or to write Lisp in such an environment? Seriously?

Is that a new development? I thought open-plan study halls were common in universities and libraries. http://www.flickr.com/photos/proimos/5914733818/

But in a library silence is expected; not conference calls, chat and collaboration.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#103

Post by ant6n »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21
a_c_s wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find cubicles to be the worst of both worlds: too spread out for much collaboration with neighbors, but open enough go have nearly all the noise and distraction of an open office.

I find working from home to be the best out of all three choices. I'd never go back to working in an office, cubicles, open office space, whatever. If your business structure is so terrible that you can't manage a remote team, you're probably not that great at managing folks onsite either.

I generally work at home before lunch, then in a (cramped) group office after lunch. This way I get to work by myself for considerable chunks, get to do all my meals at home (good for budgeting), and still get to interact/collaborate with colleagues basically every day.

Once I spent a full day at the office; I was totally beat afterwards.

The only problem is that it _looks_ like I only work half-days to everybody else.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#104

Post by Symbiote »

icebraining wrote: post #95
rewqfdsa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Deliverable" is one of words that provokes a "nope" reaction from me. I am not a resource that produces deliverables. I am a human being.

Why can't you be a human that produces deliverables? Seems like a weird hung up to have.

We have an ongoing joke about issuing 20p fines for using stupid phrases like, "going forward, I'm leveraging the stakeholders for additional resource to in-flight the next key deliverable". That one's worth at least £1.20. What's wrong with "I'll ask for another developer to work on this project"?

This started with the observation that what's presently called "Human Resources" used to be called "Personnel" and before that simply the "Staff Department". A progression of euphemistic bullshit words.

Letters and parcels are "deliverable". How about "task", or "feature", or "report", or just "thing".

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#105

Post by nextos »

Symbiote wrote: post #102
icebraining wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a new development? I thought open-plan study halls were common in universities and libraries. http://www.flickr.com/photos/proimos/5914733818/

But in a library silence is expected; not conference calls, chat and collaboration.

Exactly. A library doesn't count as open plan. Silence policies are very strict. Open plan offices on the other hand...

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#106

Post by icebraining »

Symbiote wrote: post #104
icebraining wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you be a human that produces deliverables? Seems like a weird hung up to have.

We have an ongoing joke about issuing 20p fines for using stupid phrases like, "going forward, I'm leveraging the stakeholders for additional resource to in-flight the next key deliverable". That one's worth at least £1.20. What's wrong with "I'll ask for another developer to work on this project"? This started with the observation that what's presently called "Human Resources" used to be called "Personnel" and befor…

Fair enough; I'm all for mocking bullshit language, it's just that deliverable never striked me as such. Then again, I don't work in English-speaking corporations.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#107

Post by notahacker »

fsloth wrote: post #36
dillon wrote: post #22

I think this has been a discussion going on for a long time now. What I believe to be true is it really depends on the person. If you're someone who is self-conscious then yes you'll feel like everyone is judging you all the time. If you have the ability to stay focused on your work without being around colleagues then you should be allowed to work from home. I've worked in open offices, offices with high partitions…

"Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. " Actually any co-location scheme allows this, walls or no walls. It's a matter of culture, not of vertical dividers. But I concur, it's a bit over the top to say that "everyone" hates open offices since clearly some people don't. Personally, to me it feels like a quarter suffers, of which…

The "quarter that thinks its OK" is something of an understatement. Some of that quarter are self-employed people who still think it's so much better for their productivity to be around other people that they're prepared to pay money and sacrifice an hour commuting in order to sit at a desk in a big, trendily-decorated room with an assortment of other entirely-unrelated microbuses-owners rather than a desk in their own bedroom.

Other people have no choice whatsoever about where they work, but still enjoy their coworker interaction to the point they get bored and demotivated when the office is quiet. They might not be the most popular people in the office with programmers who also have no choice where they work, but from their point of view the open plan office is much better than sitting in a dreary box wondering if the question that's on their mind is actually worth getting out of their seat to go to ask a colleague about, whether marketing are in today and whether anyone else has made a sale yet.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#108

Post by dang »

gnaritas wrote: post #38
dillon wrote: post #22

I think this has been a discussion going on for a long time now. What I believe to be true is it really depends on the person. If you're someone who is self-conscious then yes you'll feel like everyone is judging you all the time. If you have the ability to stay focused on your work without being around colleagues then you should be allowed to work from home. I've worked in open offices, offices with high partitions…

> When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

> Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

Please don't be personally rude on HN.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#109

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #108
gnaritas wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

> Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy? Please don't be personally rude on HN.

[deleted]

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#110

Post by gnaritas »

dang wrote: post #108
gnaritas wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

> Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy? Please don't be personally rude on HN.

You're being overly sensitive, that wasn't rude.
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