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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#101
post #18
post #2

How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?

Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if b…

  Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss.
How do the Swiss fit in to this? Actually the tax honesty is considered a lot higher than in Germany (let alone South European countries).

The reason for this being that the tax declaration is fairly straight forward and simple. Fairness of the (progressive) tax code is quite widely recognized, which makes for good - if not happy - tax payers.

If you're implying that evading taxes is something like a Swiss hobby and legal (bullshit I see quite often spouted by even reputable American papers) this is absolute rubbish. Tax evasion is not legal in any way, shape or form.

So my question stands: Where do the Swiss come into your equation?

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#102
post #44
post #30

As far as I know this has been mostly about boosting "diversity" quotas at German Universities in order to perform better in international rankings. Previously this had been done by rising the amount of students coming from low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia), so it is certainly a welcome change to see US students making use of that system.

How about: "...to improve academic overall performance" instead of "... in order to perform better in international rankings." Diversity has proven benefits in many cases, I see it in my daily work. It is much more than just a number in a ranking. > low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia) Asia? Low-income? These times are gone in many places. You need to update your knowledge. Diversity in your workplace…

You don't find it a "bit" surprising that U.S. students don't even make it in the Top10 countries of origin? http://www.iie.org/Services/Project-Atlas/Germany/Internatio...

In regards to the ranking - one of the most important rankings for international Universities is the Times Higher Education World University Rankings. Methodology section: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-ranki... this factor is measured by the ratio of international to domestic students and is worth 2.5 per cent of the overall score.

German Universities have a big issue about ranking performances, case and point giving certain Universities a Government issued "elite" title.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#103
post #87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Sources? Because I'm pretty sure that's wrong: http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

I based this on the rules in the countries that I investigated some time ago (among them Sweden and Denmark), according to your link they seem to be the only ones to charge such high fees for non-residents. Thanks for the correction.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#104
post #92
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the ideal export to import ratio is 1, BTW. Anything else is an imbalance and a ticking bomb. The internal trade imbalances in the EU have already blown up once.

1? really? i guess you mean reinvesting your net positive export income into efficiency improvements and innovation and maintaining infrastructure? ok, i can agree with that. but one still needs save for a rainy day (emergencies, downturns) so maybe the ideal is slightly greater than 1.

No, because if it is slightly greater than 1 for one country, it must be slightly less than 1 for at least one other country.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#105
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible for everyone to be a net exporter. At the same time, being a net importer is not in itself a bad thing. The reason the US doesn't have free college for everyone is not because it is a net importer. The US could afford Germany-style benefits; that's not the problem. Canada probably could too.

something to strive for no? i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default. There are many reasons why the US does not have free college (taxes too low, universities are run like business now, etc.) but running huge…

> something to strive for no?

No. If everyone strives to be a net exporter, you quickly end up with a race to the bottom.

> i think of countries export to import ratios like personal finance income vs expenditures. if you spend more than you make, where we you get the money to reinvest in yourself. you'll borrow it until you can't make the minimum payments and then default.

This is the wrong way to think about it. The trade deficit is nothing like personal finances/expenditures; this is a common meme in Germany, though, so I understand where you might have gotten the idea from. (Germany is presently dragging down the entire Eurozone with these beliefs.) You are not "borrowing" by having a trade deficit (nor do you have to borrow to have one.) It's just an outflow of currency, which is not particularly harmful to countries printing their own currency.

> There are many reasons why the US does not have free college (taxes too low, universities are run like business now, etc.) but running huge deficits and not having any savings to invest in society is one of the reasons.

This is not a reason at all. The trade deficit has nothing to do with US budget deficits, and the US still has plenty of money to invest back into society. It's a matter of political will and the way the government and education is organized. A lot has changed over the past decade for the worse and the better. Before the recession, there were actually enormous state subsidies to public universities that reduced their cost. During the recession, states began cutting back, which has been a contributor to rising college costs. At the same time, the government has modified the student loan program to be much better: indeed under the program as it now exists it's not really so much a loan as it is a tax on your post-college earnings. At the same time, universities are plagued with large, overpaid bureaucratic administrations, an increasing focus on new amenities, and perhaps even worse, a sense that the more money it costs to attend, the better the college must be. Students are in part rewarding colleges for raising prices - conservatives blame this on the ease of finding loans to pay for school, but I think the situation is more complex. If you had a dramatic restructuring of the US system, say, for example, you slashed public university administration budgets and froze spending on anything non-academic, instituted price controls, and consolidated all the various local, state, and federal programs to fund schools or scholarships, you could probably make college a lot cheaper or even free right now with minimal tax increases. The wealth and resources are already there. There was actually an Obama proposal to make community college free (a small step toward this), which the media estimated would cost 15 billion - chump change in the US budget.

As an aside, college costs are more complicated than people think. In many (most?) states, sufficient academic performance (as measured by an ACT or SAT score) automatically guarantees a full scholarship (or less, depending on your score.)

You also have community colleges, which are much cheaper and allow you to obtain a two year degree and transfer to a four-year university.

Once you get outside of private colleges and the big-name schools (usually on the coasts), public university costs are much reduced. And you can get in even if you're academically terrible, a situation you don't necessarily have in the European systems.

For example: I attended community college for free because of my ACT score. I could have gone directly to university for free, but I chose not to because of my age. I transferred to a four year school, paid for 3 (2.5 undergrad, .5 grad) years with money I earned at a minimum wage job, and then finished out grad school with an assistantship that paid my tuition plus a stipend. I graduated four years ago. This is still easily doable in most of the country. In fact it's still exactly doable if you just go directly to university and don't have to pay anything.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#106

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field. Great comment. Anyway I will never leave Europe for US/Canada/Australia[1]. I've visited some family in the latter and I feel that the advantages of these countries are not enough to make me live there. Exchanging peace of mind and a huge dec…

I think you have been misinformed about the main goal of many early American colonizers.

Also, that's a rather tenuous connection to suburbs. US suburbs mostly developed 200 years after colonization. And 100 years after London (that's "old world", right?) invented suburbs.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#107

Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast. I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British. But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in a…

"I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British." What do you mean by "I studied engineering in Europe"? London is in Europe.

"What do you mean by «I studied engineering in Europe»? London is in Europe."

I understand your objection, but on the other hand there is also a reason of compacting the message sent across that may work for other European countries too. Instead of saying "somewhere outside my country, but here in Europe nevertheless", it goes just "in Europe" taking the speaker's location as a relying context (opposed to "in here", as "in this country").

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#108
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Finns are paid to study. I think students in most of the Nordic countries are." There are scholarships (all over Europe) that depend on acquiring a minimal number of Bologna-credits, and those (at least in some countries) existed since the foundation of the higher education itself.

In most (all? not sure) of the Nordic countries it's not scholarships (well, you have scholarships too), but at least used to be blanket grants to everyone that qualifies for a university place, combined with cheap loans. The grants when I studied in Norway were not huge, but they were unconditional for some number of years as long as you could document that you were still studying (basically it was sufficient to sig…

Yes, this is indeed the case. For a typical university student, you get a grant of 335,32€ a month and a up to 201,60€ for residence (up to 80% of the your rent). And up to 400€ a month of government-guaranteed cheap student loan. If you are skimpy, it's just about enough to get along.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#109

If the Germans have any sense, they will lift a fee from U.S. students. Taxpayers won't appreciate having their money thrown away just so that aliens can have a free ride.

Just ask yourself if there are any other benefits to having U.S. students studying in your country. Think outside the box.

Your comment comes across as quite xenophobic with it's 'aliens can have a free ride'.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know how engineering courses look like in Poland. Universities are 100% free, but they have absolutely no qualms about kicking out weaker students. Electrical engineering course at any of the largest universities in Poland will enroll 300-400 people,but 200 of them will fail the first year. The last year is usually finished by In contrast, I studied in UK and getting through university at an Engineering course was…

i finished AGH in Krakow and i approve this message :D lol

I did a CS course at AGH too. I had well over 100 people on my first year (couldn't physically fit them into some lecture halls), after first semester this halved. Second year there were fewer than 40 of us even after transfers. I think it's the most fair way to run courses.
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