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Show me the salary!

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101–110 of 191 posts

Re: Show me the salary!

#101

Post by mgkimsal »

johnward wrote: post #34
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

I usually follow all of these. The one thing that gets me is when a recruiter calls me up. I usually talk to them because I don't want to be a dick and you never know they my actually be valuable one day. I tell them my salary. "oh well this one pays about 70% of that and it's an 8 month contract. I'd like to put you in for this". I'm not leaving a full time position for a contract position with less pay. I might con…

Either lie about your salary, or give them a higher target. For FTE, I give recruiters a decidedly large number. It's not undoable in this region - I know a few people in that range - but it's generally high enough that they (occasionally) laugh at me. But I did have someone get back and say they could get to about 80% of that, which was a good starting point (ultimately didn't land the position, but probably would have taken it at the time).

Re: Show me the salary!

#102

Post by exelius »

S_A_P wrote: post #97

So I am in the early stages of starting a consulting business. Currently this business is just me, myself and I, but at some point I want to bring in and mentor junior people. I've kicked around a few ideas around salary and one of them is to tell them what I want to pay them first thing, up front. Hey, this job pays X dollars. If we move past that, then I will work to see if there is a skill/personal fit. This is as…

It's a little easier to do this in professional services -- you know pretty much what you can bill that person out for, so you know what you can pay them. Employee pay has a pretty direct contribution to margins (and to revenue). This is not the case in most industries - adding an employee does not add a predictable amount of revenue in most cases.

Re: Show me the salary!

#103

Post by shanemhansen »

I'm not too concerned with companies not listing salaries because I think a job posting isn't actually a posting for a job. It's really just a way to let me know that a company has certain needs. They may fill that position with a senior developer, or a junior developer. Quite often there is currently one person wearing many hats who needs to hand off responsibilities in one area.

However I've found I get the best results by stating my salary requirements up front.

Re: Show me the salary!

#104

Post by ryandrake »

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #64
vkjv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He asks for his salary to be re-aligned with industry standards and in many cases they will oblige. In most cases, businesses are reasonable. They aren't going to volunteer to pay you more out of the goodness of their heart, but (most) of the time it doesn't hurt to ask. Just don't go threatening to leave if they don't.

If your company doesn't appreciate enough to pay you market rate unless you explicitly ask for it, you're better off finding a different employer.

I've never, in 15+ years of employment, ever seen a company that will increase your salary simply to square you with market rate. It's always "here's your cost-of-living" increase (which is based on your current salary). Or, "You're doing a good job, here's a raise" (which has nothing to do with market rate). They will, however decrease your salary as market rate goes down.

Re: Show me the salary!

#105

Post by ryandrake »

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

These are good rules when the going is good. But you need to be flexible when times are bad. In technology (and probably many other industries), it's feast and famine. Whilst today, a good engineer can expect to see recruiters spamming them weekly or even daily, this wasn't the case in, say, 2001-4, 2008-9. Your rules also seem to be for people who already have jobs. When you're unemployed, your pickiness factor has to be zero--any job is better than no job.

Re: Show me the salary!

#106

Post by vonmoltke »

emodendroket wrote: post #38
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

What's amazing to me is all the recruiters who call you to ask if you want to do temp-to-perm work when you have a full-time job. Why would you agree to that?

Screw that, how about the recruiters who call offering straight contract work?

Re: Show me the salary!

#107

Post by lione »

gambiting wrote: post #46

I work in the games industry in the UK and if there is any greater secret than the games we work on, it's definitely our salaries. NO ONE will even mention how much they make, and that's because the industry pays much worse than anything else. I was even openly told in the interview that yeah, they know that this position pays 10k(GBP) less than a similar position anywhere else,but it's the games industry so that's w…

To be fair, isn't the games industry one of those industries where lower salary is one of the tradeoffs for a "fun" job? I mean so many young coders want to go into the games industry to make games and do what their passionate about. The majority of them realize that being underpaid and overworked isn't their cup of tea, and that they are more likely to be working on the next Super Street Sweeper instead of Halo, but those that remain tough it out because it's their dream/ambition in life and they hope that they can put their name and effort behind a big game. The supply for games people outstripes the demand by far, so they can pay lower rates.

Re: Show me the salary!

#108

Post by randomdata »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #42
MikeTaylor wrote: post #17

This is simple. I won't waste my time applying for a job that doesn't even bother to tell me what they're going to pay -- any more than I would buy a car without knowing its engine capacity, mileage, etc. The idea is idiotic. So: the only people who will apply for jobs with no salary listed are the ones desperate for any job. Are they the people you want to hire?

There's a difference between not posting salary and not telling a potential candidate when asked. Given that in America at least incredibly few companies post salary ranges to the public it is a stretch (and insulting) to claim applicants for positions with no posted salary are desperate.

That approach is still flawed though. In a seller's market, which I do believe the developer market currently is, the buyer is the one who has to do the marketing.

Supplying expected compensation up front is one of the best ways to market your business to developers. If I, a developer, am making $100K and you make it known that you are willing to pay $200K, I'm going to get excited and get in touch with you. If I am left to assume that you are also only offering $100K, because you "pay market rates" or haven't said otherwise, I'm not even going to waste my time getting in touch with you.

It seems like a lot of businesses feel like they are in a buyer's market, which comes with completely different rules, and then cannot figure out why it isn't working for them.

Re: Show me the salary!

#109

Post by ryandrake »

sukilot wrote: post #88
pixelcort wrote: post #51

Would a solution to Yao's Millionaires' problem help? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yao%27s_Millionaires%27_Probl... The candidate puts in the minimum they're willing to take into one side of the solution, and the employer puts in the maximum. Both then securely find out if the minimum is less than the maximum, without revealing the two numbers to each other. The socialist millionaire solution is used in OTR, but th…

As a bonus, anybody who can implement the algorithm is a strong hire.

So, anyone who knows how to use the greater-than operator is a strong hire?

Re: Show me the salary!

#110

Post by vonmoltke »

ryandrake wrote: post #105
Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

These are good rules when the going is good. But you need to be flexible when times are bad. In technology (and probably many other industries), it's feast and famine. Whilst today, a good engineer can expect to see recruiters spamming them weekly or even daily, this wasn't the case in, say, 2001-4, 2008-9. Your rules also seem to be for people who already have jobs. When you're unemployed, your pickiness factor has…

A good engineer with the right buzzwords and in the right location.
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