Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

fortune.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 174 posts

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#101

Post by pen2l »

leif wrote: post #74
b6 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem certain that that you know exactly what the problem is, and exactly how to solve it, down to a list of steps. You even seem certain that a stranger on the Internet is part of the problem. Well, give me a break -- that's really presumptuous and condescending. Listening to the aggrieved seems like a good idea, but there's no guarantee that they have the answers.

>You even seem certain that a stranger on the Internet is part of the problem The stranger on the internet said they felt like part of the problem, so I don't really know what to tell you. If you read between the lines a bit, I never said I had any of the answers. All I said was listen to the people that are affected, try to learn about their problems, and be empathetic, and maybe you'll find the answers. I'm not try…

> All I said was listen to the people that are affected, try to learn about their problems, and be empathetic, and maybe you'll find the answers.

Are you aware that one female will have entirely different experiences and suggestions on how to solve tech's sexism problem than the next? E.g., you implicate Vivek Wadwa as being a problem (probably due to Amelia Greenhall's accusations), and yet there are an overwhelming amount of women who take Vivek's side, not Amelia's. Amelia Greenhall herself, for example, is highly critical of Sheryl Sandberg. But is highly supportive of females whose blogs are banned by hacker news (Nitasha Tiku, for example). So, with all due respect, your suggestions are pretty impractical and will result in a lot of confusion for the person following the advice, not much good results.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#102

Post by lotso »

theVirginian wrote: post #20
alxjrvs wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am reasonably convinced that even those trying to be nice or funny can be sexist, and in fact, can be sexist while trying to be nice or funny. I am also convinced that sexism is a societal problem, and not the hand-wringing of a few key dudes. There are plenty of things in Computer Science / engineering / etc that are trying to be nice/funny, but contribute to a strong culture of sexism.

Possibly. As an outsider to the industry it is hard for me to understand exactly what people mean by sexism in the STEM fields. There is no cut and dry "Women cannot apply to this position." Instead it seems to be things like comments about the dress being fun which to me seem rather ambiguous about their intentions. I wouldn't consider that to be sexist, if I said that I would intend it as a compliment but I see stu…

A good starting place is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#103

Post by modfodder »

ad-hominem wrote: post #90
modfodder wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another new poster whose sole comment is on the use of the word Sausagefest. Is this the start of a grassroots campaign to change the underlying negativity of the phrase to a positive? A group of sausage makers or butchers per chance?

Another new poster That is an ad-hominem attack - are we better than this on HN? What does his account age matter if the point is valid?

Why does the fact she used this word matter if the rest of the article is relevant. And if the poster has a problem with the rest of the article, why focus on this word choice rather than make a counter argument?

And I believe my post wasn't ad-hominem because his point isn't valid.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#104

Post by logfromblammo »

dudifordMann wrote: post #61
blkhp19 wrote: post #22

First of all, calling a group of guys a sausage fest is reverse sexism. If I called a classroom full of girls a barbie play-date, or a tea party, or a "fashion" class - regardless of the real reason for their gathering, people would be outraged - and rightfully so. None of those things are true and it's disrespectful to say something like that. Second, the guy who said "well I should have applied for that" might have…

Side note: My relative who works in HR has told me time and again, the appropriate way to say "you look nice" to a co-worker in a professional setting is to not say it . In that setting, beyond grossly inappropriate work attire (at which point all comments should go directly to HR and not the employee), there is no need to make a subjective-comment on someone's appearance, you're there to work. (edit) grammar

Or perhaps compliment someone as Ron Swanson from Parks and Recreation would:

"I find your work product to be of consistently adequate quality. I also appreciate that your personal standards for hygiene and attire do not detract in any way from the efficient operation of this office."

It sounds very odd, doesn't it? The HR employee is not the gold standard for advice on how to interact with your co-workers. That person is employed to minimize potential legal liabilities to the company.

The appropriate way to say "you look nice" to a co-worker in a professional setting is to say, "you look nice". You say it in the same way that you would say it to your mother, or to anyone else for which you have both some respect and zero potential for romantic entanglement. If you can reasonably say something to your own mother, you can say it to a female co-worker.

Refusing to acknowledge someone else's positive qualities creates a completely different sort of hostile workplace, especially if that person is at all extroverted. But that sort of hostile workplace does not invite lawsuits.

That said, "good job on fixing that DR so fast" would be a far better compliment.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#105

Post by davidf18 »

Many men who program computers, especially those who are very competent, are ASD (on the Autistic Spectrum), eg, perhaps some form of Aspergers. In Autism Researcher Simon Baron-Cohen's terminology they are "hyper" systemic but "hypo" empathic. Thus, they may be acting socially unaware, especially compared with women and people should keep that in mind.

Also, women should consider at working and at least understanding and be able to talk about higher levels of technology that many of their male counterparts have not worked with. One woman I knew who has never worried about the issues in this article got an EE degree from a top rated university and did a lot of C++ contract work at high rates. Part of her education was being mentored by men who were very competent in programming yet older than she was.

Any guy that thinks he is smarter can be "put in his place" by someone who knows technology better and can show it.

Also, women should go to Meetups where they can me people in industry and learn new technologies that they may not have had in school. In the meetups that I attend in NYC, I see relatively few women and meetups are a great place to make contacts and learn new technologies.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#106

Post by aaronem »

davidf18 wrote: post #105

Many men who program computers, especially those who are very competent, are ASD (on the Autistic Spectrum), eg, perhaps some form of Aspergers. In Autism Researcher Simon Baron-Cohen's terminology they are "hyper" systemic but "hypo" empathic. Thus, they may be acting socially unaware, especially compared with women and people should keep that in mind. Also, women should consider at working and at least understandin…

> "hyper" systemic but "hypo" empathic

A society is a system.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#107

Post by onnoonno »

delluminatus wrote: post #83
cubetime wrote: post #60

I do sometimes wonder what's added by focusing on sexism in tech, in particular, and suggesting it's uniquely a problem with tech. I can believe it's worse here on average than some other comfortable professional jobs, but seriously, sexism is everywhere and if we want to reduce it, it makes more sense to me to focus on the problem itself in full generality rather than an environment it's found in. Unless you want to…

You said yourself that you can believe that sexism is worse in tech than in other professions. That is already a problem worth discussing. Why is it worse? What can we do to correct that discrepancy? I will go so far as to say your suggestion to "focus on the problem in full generality " -- which is to say, to completely encompass an impossibly complicated issue -- is just a way of trying to pass responsibility and t…

Bias against women? Seriously?

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#108

Post by dominotw »

Wow another privileged woman speaking about her "feels".

I take a bus with Mexican woman whose husband beats her but she is too scared to go to law enforcement( her being an illegal immigrant and all).

The contrast between two women is insane. Yet we talk everyday endlessly about the former not the latter. I am disgusted by this whole thing. Seriously WTF.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#109

Post by intev »

dominotw wrote: post #108

Wow another privileged woman speaking about her "feels". I take a bus with Mexican woman whose husband beats her but she is too scared to go to law enforcement( her being an illegal immigrant and all). The contrast between two women is insane. Yet we talk everyday endlessly about the former not the latter. I am disgusted by this whole thing. Seriously WTF.

Just because the Mexican woman is in a worse situation compared to the Stanford grad, it doesn't make the Stanford grad's situation any less worse. If you were not allowed to eat any food once a week, and I told you "there's starving children in Africa with NO food 3 times a week" does that make you feel better about your situation? You also happen to be posting on a tech website, so that would explain why we talk about the former and not the latter. Outside silicon valley no one cares about the former but there are many organizations trying their best to help with the latter.

Re: A female computer science major at Stanford: “Floored” by the sexism

#110

Post by seanflyon »

dominotw wrote: post #108

Wow another privileged woman speaking about her "feels". I take a bus with Mexican woman whose husband beats her but she is too scared to go to law enforcement( her being an illegal immigrant and all). The contrast between two women is insane. Yet we talk everyday endlessly about the former not the latter. I am disgusted by this whole thing. Seriously WTF.

It is right to be disgusted with domestic violence, but that does not mean that you should not care about other problems. We should not limit ourselves to only care about the single worst problem.
Post reply on HN