Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

blog.chromium.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 181 posts

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#101

Post by dragonwriter »

hacst wrote: post #97
donatj wrote: post #91

Can someone explain to me the actual upside of header compression? I work on a fairly major educational site and calculating now our request + response headers comes out to 1,399 bytes. Gzipping them they come out to 1,421 bytes. A small net increase. Am I missing something? Do some people have so many cookies that this makes a difference or something?

The header compression in HTTP 2.0 isn't based on gzip or something like that. The CRIME attack pretty much killed those approaches dead. It's more akin to differential updates for header during the lifetime of the connection. So if you request a lot of files with fairly similar headers you'll effectively only have to transmit the bulk of the header once while the other request will efficiently re-use the previously…

> So to answer your question: Header compression as employed in HTTP 2.0 helps if you do many requests with similar headers on the same connection.

In general, HTTP/2.0 seems to be about improving things if you do many requests over the same connection.

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#102

Post by azakai »

dragonwriter wrote: post #93
azakai wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you that competition is crucial, and without experimentation we will get nowhere, it is worth remembering that IE6 and all of its specific behaviors "won" through "raw competition". Often things win not through fair competition. For example, WebSQL "won" on mobile because WebKit won on mobile, and WebKit happened to have WebSQL. If WebKit had had, say, the Audio Data API (which it did not), then th…

> it is worth remembering that IE6 and all of its specific behaviors "won" through "raw competition". It is worth noting that the findings in the antitrust actions in the US over Microsoft's illegal and anti-competitive behavior in establishing IE's dominance indicate that that claim is, at best, misleading.

I would argue the opposite, in fact - that it shows what happens with pure unrestrained competition. Which leads to monopolies and other forms of competition suppression, ironically, of course.

Regardless, we don't need to agree on that point. There are plenty of other examples in tech (and outside) of things winning through "raw competition" that are just not that good.

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#103

Post by cletusw »

enneff wrote: post #74
drderidder wrote: post #54

I got a copy of Paul-Henning Kamp's critique "HTTP/2.0 - The IETF is Phoning It In" off the ACM website before the link went dead. Here's a bit of what he said about it: "Some will expect a major update to the world’s most popular protocol to be a technical masterpiece and textbook example for future students of protocol design. Some will expect that a protocol designed during the Snowden revelations will improve the…

Whatever PHK wants it to be, HTTP/2 is a great step forward from where we are today. Check this out: https://http2.golang.org/gophertiles This is going to make the web so much faster, particular on mobile devices.

That's one powerful yet easy-to-understand example!

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#104

Post by ademarre »

dragonwriter wrote: post #101
hacst wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The header compression in HTTP 2.0 isn't based on gzip or something like that. The CRIME attack pretty much killed those approaches dead. It's more akin to differential updates for header during the lifetime of the connection. So if you request a lot of files with fairly similar headers you'll effectively only have to transmit the bulk of the header once while the other request will efficiently re-use the previously…

> So to answer your question: Header compression as employed in HTTP 2.0 helps if you do many requests with similar headers on the same connection. In general, HTTP/2.0 seems to be about improving things if you do many requests over the same connection.

Doing many requests over the same connection is very common.

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#105

Post by byuu »

icebraining wrote: post #90
Touche wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so lame. It's so easy to set up a new website today, it's going to be a huge burden in the future. Some of us still make websites for fun, not as businesses. I guess I have to buy a cheap ssl certificate from some sleezy website every time I feel creative.

I'm puzzled, did you miss the announcement? The EFF, Mozilla, and others are creating a CA that will give free certs to everyone: https://letsencrypt.org/

Will they give out wildcard domain certificates?

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#106

Post by jimktrains2 »

enneff wrote: post #74
drderidder wrote: post #54

I got a copy of Paul-Henning Kamp's critique "HTTP/2.0 - The IETF is Phoning It In" off the ACM website before the link went dead. Here's a bit of what he said about it: "Some will expect a major update to the world’s most popular protocol to be a technical masterpiece and textbook example for future students of protocol design. Some will expect that a protocol designed during the Snowden revelations will improve the…

Whatever PHK wants it to be, HTTP/2 is a great step forward from where we are today. Check this out: https://http2.golang.org/gophertiles This is going to make the web so much faster, particular on mobile devices.

> Whatever PHK wants it to be, HTTP/2 is a great step forward from where we are today.

A hugely bloated, binary protocol is better than the simple, text-based on we have today? I greatly disagree. HTTP/1.1 could use an update, but HTTP/2 was not the answer.

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#107

Post by enneff »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #106
enneff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever PHK wants it to be, HTTP/2 is a great step forward from where we are today. Check this out: https://http2.golang.org/gophertiles This is going to make the web so much faster, particular on mobile devices.

> Whatever PHK wants it to be, HTTP/2 is a great step forward from where we are today. A hugely bloated, binary protocol is better than the simple, text-based on we have today? I greatly disagree. HTTP/1.1 could use an update, but HTTP/2 was not the answer.

HTTP/1.1 is also pretty bloated, it's just half the features nobody bothered to implement correctly (pipelining, for instance). HTTP/2 is much the same.

Re: Hello HTTP/2, Goodbye SPDY

#109

Post by totony »

drawkbox wrote: post #88
kolev wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, XHTML was a simplification.

Did you close that tag in that textarea from some third party content? If not you're whole view is broken. It was a layer or hopeful standardization that was too hopeful and counted on implementers too much to be exact. It was a nice attempt but was quickly retracted to go to HTML5. I guess the same thing applies to HTTP/2, sometimes you have to dumb/simplify it down a little, the smartest way that relies on implemen…

XHTML was an overall improvement to HTML imo. If you're going to use XML, at least be consistent with this choice. HTML was not, XHTML is.
Post reply on HN