Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace • Hacker News Board

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#101

Post by LukeWalsh » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:26 PM UTC

I'm fairly young but my experiences with open offices have been that they are more distracting, but it's possibile to minimize the distractions with headphones. It's difficult for me to listen to music while working so I use coffitivity which pipes in background noise from coffee shops. It sounds like hustle and bustle, but you can never actually latch on to a conversation since there are none.

When I worked in a private office I found it hard to stay motivated. This is in contrast to an open office when I can look at the people around me all working hard on the same problem. It makes me feel motivated to keep working.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#102

Post by mcguire » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

laxatives wrote: post #63

badmadrad wrote: post #13

Open offices are type A/extroverted personality wet dreams. Everybody they need is within earshot and they can see EVERYTHING so they can properly control everything. However for introverts, people with noise sensitivity, or people with ADD this is an absolute nightmare. I find a lot of engineers tend to be either introverts or have some type of manageable ADD so it doesn't surprise me that many people would be negat…

I don't feel this way at all, and judging from the number of similar comments that popped up while writing this, I don't think I'm in the minority either. Why can't an introvert put on headphones or simply disregard irrelevant conversations in an open office? Why do type A extroverts feel the need to control things they happen to be nearby?

That is the point of an open office: you can't disregard what is going on around you.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#103

Post by nchammas » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

Nathan Marz (of Apache Storm fame) also wrote about this topic recently:

"Now, I don't want to comment on the effectiveness of open floor plans for fields other than my own. But for software development, this is the single best way to sabotage the productivity of your entire engineering team."

http://nathanmarz.com/blog/the-inexplicable-rise-of-open-flo...

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#104

Post by analog31 » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

kyleashipley wrote: post #24

I'll play contrarian for a moment: the most productive office I've ever worked in was an open office layout. What worked for us: * Separate clusters by function / noise level -- We didn't put sales people and developers next to one another. People who spent all day on the phone were near other people who spent all day on the phone. * Keep clusters small -- We had 4 person "pods" of desks for most of our early lifecyc…

The measures that you mention seem like ways to mitigate the obvious effects of open offices by making them more like closed offices -- including increasing the amount of floor space per worker.

>>> Maybe the reason is because you're doing it wrong.

That can be said of any failed ideology.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#105

Post by bduerst » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:30 PM UTC

equalarrow wrote: post #73

trose wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be said more. I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration as well as the occasional spontaneous fun interruption. People seem to get hung up on the interruptions as if they lose tons and tons of productivity. I just haven't experienced issues like that personally. I find that the interruptions are a welcome break to the monotony of staring at code for 8 hour…

Staring at code 8 hours a day.. Maybe that's the problem. As someone who's had to run programming groups and do the programming work, I will say open floor plans are the worst idea ever. If you need/want to get into the zone on a project and actually make progress, the open floor plan will keep you from doing that as much as possible. For breaks, the last thing I would be doing is going on facebook or checking email…

>Your job sounds horrible if people can just walk up any time for any reason.

I think this speaks more to what you think about your coworkers than actually weighing in on open floor plans.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#106

Post by enjo » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

thejerz wrote: post #91

This debate is easily solved by simply asking people, "Which do you prefer: open offices or closed door offices?" 90% of people will answer the latter. Case closed.

That needs a citation. When I polled my largeish team in 2007 it was nearly 100% hard wall office.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#107

Post by stevesearer » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #96

This is an opinion piece with a baity title that points to a New Yorker article which has had three extensive discussions on HN, including a month ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8696391 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7832209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7024488

This was the #1 story a few minutes ago but not to be found on any of the top pages anymore. Out of curiosity, do you mod down stories you feel aren't fitting and/or duplicate discussions?

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#108

Post by logfromblammo » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:31 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #54

kyleashipley wrote: post #24

I'll play contrarian for a moment: the most productive office I've ever worked in was an open office layout. What worked for us: * Separate clusters by function / noise level -- We didn't put sales people and developers next to one another. People who spent all day on the phone were near other people who spent all day on the phone. * Keep clusters small -- We had 4 person "pods" of desks for most of our early lifecyc…

Your advice is on the same level as "eat healthy" and "exercise more". It's nice, we should all do it, however for some people it never happens. And here's the problem - some people just cannot be respectful of other people's time or flow and also you can find a lot of variation between communication styles (e.g. synchronous vs asynchronous) or noise tolerance of people. For example, some people only want to work fro…

I'm bothered by people who prioritize synchronous communication over asynchronous. On a recent project, I worked with someone who was remote. Every time I sent an e-mail, he picked up the telephone. Then he took a long time to get to the point, and couldn't ever seem to disengage cleanly.

Open floor plans would probably work great for people like that. I prefer to not be pre-empted from my current task, and to have a written record of the things you wanted to tell me, so I can refer to it later. Face-to-face conversations are fine if I'm not already doing something else, but don't force me into one just because you're doing your "manager walk" or can't be arsed to have a specific agenda for the conversation.

If I have a door, I can hang a "do not disturb" sign on it, and lo, I am not disturbed. Otherwise, it may just be closed because the compressor from the fridge in the break area bothers me. I don't mind interruptions, provided they are more important than what I am currently doing, but it seems like open plans lower the threshold for interruption. Some people see that as also lowering the threshold for collaboration. But there are ways to design a space to encourage one without also encouraging the other.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#109

Post by piinbinary » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #95

I'm not a big fan of these articles. It depends on what you're doing. I'm a professor, and in order to get certain tasks done, you need a private space. I don't even know how you could grade exams, for instance, without a private space in order to concentrate and prevent others from seeing what you're doing. When I'm working on a paper, on the other hand, it's way more productive to have my coauthors right next to me…

    > it's way more productive to have my coauthors right next to me.

I think that principle is true in most enterprises: it helps to be in the same room with the people you work directly with.

Having people you do not work with (and especially their conversations) in the same room is, as far as I can see, always harmful.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#110

Post by labmixz » Tue, Dec 30, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

I've been a developer for over a decade, where I'm currently employed they have adopted low-partitions (lets be honest, no partitions). I can hear people twitch, breathe, randomly talk with others 3 isles down. Every developer has on headphones trying to ignore all the movement/talking around them, it's just a horrible setup. I find myself being less confident in my work, because I can't concentrate due to a all the distractions around, wearing headphones/earbuds is a nice work-around, but not a solution, I would like to not have my earbuds on 6+ hours a day.

While I see the advantages to open offices, not everyone works the same way, companies who want to maximize employee effectiveness should cater to both types of needs.