An Offer to Sony from 2600 • Hacker News Board

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#101

Post by themartorana » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:21 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #12

logn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now we want you never let the movie released, distributed or leaked in any form of, for instance, DVD or piracy. And we want everything related to the movie, including its trailers, as well as its full version down from any website hosting them immediately." If only we had passed SOPA and CISPA, we'd be so much safer right now.

If anything I think this shows how poorly the US Gov is prepared for cyber-warfare. The last decade was no cake walk, but the next decade will truly be eye opening. The FBI told Sony they didn't know if the theaters were safe. Seriously, WTF are we paying them for if they can't tell us, with absolute certainty, that our theaters are safe from terrorist attacks on Christmas. That's not very comforting... So what I'm h…

"...what are we paying them for..."

This is an argument that frustrates me. I don't mean to directly imply that parent feels this way, but there is this idea that our government can provide true assurances of our safety. But in a free society (or any) that's just not true.

This idea isn't helped at all by the government pushing that they can, if we just hand over one more freedom, or give up one more bit of privacy.

There is nothing that can guarantee safety from violence. Nothing. The FBI, NSA, etc., when not spying on us for no reason do seem to keep us safer than we might be without a degree of diligence. Police forces do seem to, in general, care for public safety. But of course the FBI can't guarantee that tens of thousands of theaters are completely safe from violence - and to think otherwise is to be permanently afraid, and to always be looking to Big Brother to assail your fear.

http://www.vice.com/read/fearing-fear-itself-666

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#102

Post by wmeredith » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:23 PM UTC

connie_lingus wrote: post #95

The CIA report threatens our legitimacy as a world power. no it does not...almost everyone in the world understand that under certain conditions, torture to get potentially life-saving information is just the way of things. let me put it this way...if your immediate family was going to be blown up in two hours, wouldn't you say go ahead and torture that guy who you KNOW has information on how to diffuse the bomb?

Your premise is pure fantasy. There was never a ticking time bomb scenario. And torque is NOT an effective means of extracting information. Everyone from Napoleon to Hitler to our own Military generals have aid as much.

Here's a good article on the subject: http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/no...

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#103

Post by ObviousScience » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:24 PM UTC

connie_lingus wrote: post #98

xtrumanx wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would. It's scary me that you're sure that you would.

you would allow your parents and children to be blown up rather than make a horrid criminal be very uncomfortable for a few minutes???? and i'm the nutty one?

Except a) that torture in the report didn't last for a few minutes and b) that it's less effective than other methods and more likely to obtain false information.

So if I only had a couple hours and actually wanted to save my family, I'd probably try to do something that would actually make a difference.

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#104

Post by srj » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:24 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #60

jgwest wrote: post #7

Too much condescending tone in this "proposal"... I think people just want to see the film. I certainly want to see the film. It might have a crappy plot or a second-rate screenplay or subpar acting, but with this sort of publicity none of that matters. Just watching it will be an event, perhaps an even bigger event than watching The Last Temptation of Christ was way-back-when... Anyway, Sony seems to be in a defiant…

> Just watching it will be an event That brings up a good point. Perhaps Sony should even consider using the controversy in its marketing, then later make claims about how much more successful the film was than projected, thanks to the added publicity (which will almost certainly be true). Not only would it show defiance, it would underscore the paradoxical effect of trying to stifle free speech in this manner. And,…

What has lead you to believe that free speech is any consideration in Sony's dealings? This is the company that has (and still does) push for SOPA and CISPA-like abilities to take down websites with the most minor effort!

It's unclear why the release was canceled. Maybe Sony wants to just put this whole thing behind them. Maybe they want to curtail any further leaks that they feel may be worse. Perhaps the executives feel that being a victim of a foreign nation absolves them of any culpability and they're playing that card to the greatest extent they can. But I highly doubt they're going to make any about face on a policy issue and are still very much against free speech as far as the internet is concerned. If anything this incident will be used to bolster their arguments and to that end maybe it has worked out better for them than "The Interview" ever could.

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#105

Post by bigtunacan » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:26 PM UTC

palmer_eldritch wrote: post #54

bigtunacan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking the same thing. While I don't believe it is well known, Crackle is available to most platforms.

If they released it today on that platform, it would be well known in a matter of hours.

Agreed; an official announcement from Sony to the major news outlets that it would be released on Crackle and nearly as many people would have that installed as iTunes :)

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#106

Post by geophile » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:28 PM UTC

Isn't this two not really related events being conflated?

1) Sony gets hacked. A big hack, but just a hack.

2) Sony pulls a movie because it offends a nasty dictator identified by name.

Why are these connected? It's not as if they learned about the movie from the hack? I've seen the ad for that movie a few times, and I'm pretty sure that the spymasters in North Korea can watch the same Seinfeld reruns that I do.

Why is the ridiculousness over Sony pulling the picture (PR stunt or not) at all related to the hack?

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#107

Post by rblatz » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:30 PM UTC

connie_lingus wrote: post #98

xtrumanx wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would. It's scary me that you're sure that you would.

you would allow your parents and children to be blown up rather than make a horrid criminal be very uncomfortable for a few minutes???? and i'm the nutty one?

The world doesn't work like the television show 24.

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#108

Post by connie_lingus » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:32 PM UTC

wmeredith wrote: post #102

connie_lingus wrote: post #95

The CIA report threatens our legitimacy as a world power. no it does not...almost everyone in the world understand that under certain conditions, torture to get potentially life-saving information is just the way of things. let me put it this way...if your immediate family was going to be blown up in two hours, wouldn't you say go ahead and torture that guy who you KNOW has information on how to diffuse the bomb?

Your premise is pure fantasy. There was never a ticking time bomb scenario. And torque is NOT an effective means of extracting information. Everyone from Napoleon to Hitler to our own Military generals have aid as much. Here's a good article on the subject: http://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/no...

i'm sorry, but this simply flies in face of logic.

it is absolutely morally wrong, but it certainly can be effective and has been used throughout history. usually, things that don't work don't last anywhere near that long.

there are all sorts of reasons to oppose it, which of course I do, but saying it cannot be effective just isn't one of them.

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#109

Post by srj » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:34 PM UTC

connie_lingus wrote: post #95

The CIA report threatens our legitimacy as a world power. no it does not...almost everyone in the world understand that under certain conditions, torture to get potentially life-saving information is just the way of things. let me put it this way...if your immediate family was going to be blown up in two hours, wouldn't you say go ahead and torture that guy who you KNOW has information on how to diffuse the bomb?

Many were tortured for years. That fact alone argues against the existence of a ticking time bomb scenario.

Dozens of others were held for no reason at all, later released as having been found innocent.

If the US did torture someone in a scenario where the public was in imminent danger they would likely be exonerated in (at least) the court of public opinion. That's not what happened here, though.

Re: An Offer to Sony from 2600

#110

Post by rblatz » Sat, Dec 20, 2014, 2:35 PM UTC

lucozade wrote: post #27

Malician wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the assumption that the movie release even matters assume North Korean culpability in the attack (debated in other threads?) If NK is not responsible, it really doesn't matter whether the movie is released. In this scenario, the hackers could easily leak the movie themselves under someone else's guise, providing an excellent excuse to continue their campaign of pure damage toward Sony Pictures. (Assuming they…

I don't think so. There have been explicit threats against the cinemas if it's released. As such, it's pretty much beholden on the U.S. gov and Sony to assume it's a terrorist threat and act accordingly. That's somewhat orthogonal to whether or not NK is behind it but the possibility of a nation state being involved must affect their calculations.

If all it takes is anonymous vague threats on the Internet to stifle free speech, then we may as well just give that right up. We no longer deserve it.