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IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

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Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about discussion. It's a general stance positioning the perfect against the pretty good. Here's just one example: questions often get closed as duplicate after good answers start rolling in. Sometimes, the new answers are better than the old ones. The mods argue that the users should move their answers over to the old question. Or that they should improve the old answers. It's a lot of should, should, s…

This is by far the worst problem with Stack Overflow. The mods seem to leap at the chance to mark questions that are similar, but not identical, as duplicates.

There's one easy fix for this, and several other problems with SO: Don't close duplicate questions. Just cross-reference them.

Reasons:

  - Gets rid of the "This was closed because of trigger-happy
    moderators failing to distinguish between 'similar' and
    'identical'" problem by making that situation impossible.

  - Improves answer discovery for users: If Google gets you
    to almost, but not quite, the right question, 
    cross-referencing gets you the rest of the way.

  - Improves answer discovery for users: Maybe the best answer
    today isn't the same as the best answer 5 years ago.

  - Improves gamification: Rewards are the lifeblood of
    a site like Stack Overflow.  A way of dealing with
    duplicate questions that rewards users for 
    cross-referencing them is infinitely more in line with
    SE's basic idea than one that punishes them with
    public shaming. 

  - Reduces opportunity for petty bureaucrats to take root.

  - Represents a more thoughtful, measured way of thinking
    about software engineering.  Many questions really can
    have more than one correct answer, or the correct answer
    can depend on subtle details.  Which answer gets the
    green check mark may have as much to do with the situation
    of the asker than the quality of the answer.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#103
post #7
post #2

Microsoft making a lot of moves that are starting surprise the tech community. it will take some time to convert the generation that grew up with the old closed microsoft, but slowly I believe they will have converts.

I think Stack Overflow has been getting worse and worse in recent years. Their community is outright hostile to active discussion. Only directly answerable questions are tolerated. Microsoft is (as always) a few years late to the party.

Microsoft will almost certainly get the power to moderate their support section, no?

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#104

That is one smart move by Microsoft. Microsoft definitely seems like it is heading in the right direction. I'm quite excited to see what Microsoft have under their sleeves. Faster release cycles for Internet Explorer (like any other popular browsers) would be a killer move by them, IMO.

I don't see what's so amazing about this move. SO is well established at this point and Microsoft are just moving a small subset of their vast technical support effort to another platform. It is an excellent publicity stunt, though. It'll certainly fuel more of the "Microsoft has turned over a new leaf" discussion, but in the grand scheme of things with all their previous announcements like open-sourcing the C# compi…

One step at a time. Same thing I tell people about legalizing marijuana. You will never get everything you want, all at once. But if you go little by little...

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#105

MSDN Social is probably the worst web I've ever used, honestly... The layout is confusing at best. The answer is attached to the bottom (full length, no see more or anything) of the question and is then repeated again. Threaded comments are also very poorly formatted, and they hit a limit pretty soon from what I've seen.

Not to mention that its slow as hell.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#106
post #24

Such a bad idea. The format of StackOverflow is very tightly defined. I bet all support questions don't fit that format. Then what? StackOverflow should speak up against companies doing this.

Correct. Microsoft did this for Azure support. I had a question, they redirect you to post on SO. And then the question is closed because it's off topic.

Now moving to a dedicated Stack Exchange site would be fine (like AskUbuntu). The software is OK, it's just the idiotic mods and hostile users that make SO suck.

I asked a question on Server Fault, and 5 years later someone added a helpful, perfect answer (a new library was available that did exactly what I needed). That answer was down voted, and then the user was chastised by someone, telling them off for answering an old question. Bizarre.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#107
post #81
post #2

Microsoft making a lot of moves that are starting surprise the tech community. it will take some time to convert the generation that grew up with the old closed microsoft, but slowly I believe they will have converts.

I have never understood why people consider Microsoft "Closed". Apple is closed. Microsoft in past too had been extremely open to all sort of partnerships. They built technologies that were relatively ahead of open source world.

Probably because until relatively recently, MS has not open sourced very much or any software, whereas Apple has a number of notable open source projects (LLVM/Clang, Webkit/JSCore, ...). OS X is also build on open source software (BSD, Mach) whereas Windows is not.

There are other reasons too, but those are the biggest ones, I think.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#108
post #2

Microsoft making a lot of moves that are starting surprise the tech community. it will take some time to convert the generation that grew up with the old closed microsoft, but slowly I believe they will have converts.

Microsoft has been opening up for a decade...its first open source project, WIX Tools, was released in April 2004. ASP.Net MVC source code was released five years ago. Even before that, the CLI was released as an open specification as far back as 2000. Hence Mono.

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#109
post #2

Microsoft making a lot of moves that are starting surprise the tech community. it will take some time to convert the generation that grew up with the old closed microsoft, but slowly I believe they will have converts.

Microsoft has been opening up for a decade...its first open source project, WIX Tools, was released in April 2004. ASP.Net MVC source code was released five years ago. Even before that, the CLI was released as an open specification as far back as 2000. Hence Mono.

How about opening up something that really matters like the the Office formats?

Re: IE Web Development Support Moving to Stack Overflow

#110
post #107
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood why people consider Microsoft "Closed". Apple is closed. Microsoft in past too had been extremely open to all sort of partnerships. They built technologies that were relatively ahead of open source world.

Probably because until relatively recently, MS has not open sourced very much or any software, whereas Apple has a number of notable open source projects (LLVM/Clang, Webkit/JSCore, ...). OS X is also build on open source software (BSD, Mach) whereas Windows is not. There are other reasons too, but those are the biggest ones, I think.

you forgot CUPS, the thing that lets most *nix platforms print.
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