Live data from Hacker News

A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

nytimes.com

101–110 of 141 posts

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#101

It's sad that the article didn't even mention exercise as a potential treatment for ADHD. The OP implies that kids will simply "grow out" of ADHD, drugs, or changing the environment may be enough. While these are valid solutions, exercise may be equally or even more effective. John J. Ratey, one of the pioneers of ADHD [1], recently wrote the excellent Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain [2…

You can't rely on exercise to treat ADHD. It may prove beneficial, but medication is clearly more effective.

At the very least, if exercise does indeed work as well as medication, then the medication can provide the catalyst to get on a regular exercise schedule!

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#102
post #64

It's weird and frustrating that people label many abnormalities as "diseases". When I read a list of ADHD symptoms I keep asking myself - how is that a bad thing? Being bored doing unenjoyable tasks, hating homework, "Not seem to listen when spoken to",Struggle to follow instructions,Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight, Have trouble sitting still during school and homework, Be const…

I made this reply further up, but in my case, it wasn't just being bored doing the unenjoyable tasks, but also the enjoyable tasks.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#103
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story here: early age, 0 or 100, high tests and little completion. The difference is I've been programming for most of my life (I'm not exaggerating; I started at 7y). It's likely because I started so young that I find that's my hyper focus outlet, though I still find that every time I try to learn Java it feels so painful I break something and run away (though I know C, C++, Obj-C, Swift, Python, PHP, Perl,…

The article insinuates that the core problem is the higher base line of stimulus required for motivation. How does Adderall fix this? Do you feel mundane repetitive tasks are more rewarding now? What about tasks that would feel great even without the medication? Do they overload your circuits then? Am curious as to how the drug manifests itself in your day to day routine.

Before I was medicated for inattentive ADD, sitting down to study was essentially impossible. I would sit down to read, and within a minute my mind would start to wander and it took an enormous amount of effort and mental energy to get my mind back to focusing. But once again I would lose my train of thought unintentionally and start day dreaming. I used to lock myself away from any distractions, but my mind was just not equipped to learn the way my high school and college required me to. I needed to learn and I wanted to learn but I didn't have the ability to.

After taking Adderall, my mind doesn't wander aimlessly and it doesn't take an enormous amount of effort sit still and study. I still need to take mental breaks every hour and use will power to get myself to sit down and learn, but the effort was just much less, making it a much easier process. I am naturally motivated and curious. But this is hindered by the fact that I can't naturally sit and learn. On Adderall all of a sudden I can focus, and my motivation and curiosity can let me successfully get things done.

As far as tasks that would feel good even without medication, video games for example, I had even more focus and could play for longer periods of time if I wanted to. But now all of a sudden playing video games didn't seem as attractive to me anymore, because there were other things I needed to get done (like study) which I always wanted to do but were too hard. When the threshold of effort required to do work successfully is lowered, it becomes much easier to stop myself from playing video games and actually get motivated and excited about learning and getting work done.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#104

I have severe inattentive ADHD. 1. There is absolutely no sympathy: The problem with ADHD is that it is a disorder of degree not kind. If I had epilepsy or cancer or had some of my limbs missing then people around me would be supportive and understanding. But not ADHD. Everybody's mind wanders. Everyone would like to only do interesting things. Everyone forgets things from time to time. But, the problem is the degree…

>I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do.

Can you expand on this one?

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#105
i come from a generation where adhd is vocalised using a cash register chime, so i aggressively avoid acknowledging the diagnosis stead the syndromes

> My patient “treated” his [distraction'boredom'frustration'creative depletion] simply by changing the conditions of his work environment from one that was highly routine to one that was varied and unpredictable. All of a sudden, his greatest liabilities — his impatience, short attention span and restlessness — became assets.

i developed a similar work environment.. i called it distracting my distractions

i often have multiple projects i want to work on with varied goals and requirements and if i start to lull while working i just shift to another project

i used to do this when i was a younger when reading

i would have many books open and scattered on my floor, all open to different pages

my friends might start reading a book at the same time as me and finish the book in one week what took me a four weeks to finish, but after that four weeks was over i would have finished reading three other books as well, each finishing at the end of that four weeks

books are really easy to build productive workflows around: you can immediately determine speed and pace based on time it takes to read the second page and how long the book is; with projects it is more difficult, i may get stuck on one function for hours and another will come out of me effortlessly, it is a now a matter of correctly recognising when i've begun to sludge signalling i should move to another project

most recently i have been taking breaks from work every thirty minutes or so, unless i am whistling through something, and get up and stretch, while giving my back and butt the rest i try to analyse my progress since the last stretch and determine if a project shift would do me good

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#106

I have severe inattentive ADHD. 1. There is absolutely no sympathy: The problem with ADHD is that it is a disorder of degree not kind. If I had epilepsy or cancer or had some of my limbs missing then people around me would be supportive and understanding. But not ADHD. Everybody's mind wanders. Everyone would like to only do interesting things. Everyone forgets things from time to time. But, the problem is the degree…

>I hired people overseas who follow up on everything I do. Can you expand on this one?

Sure. So, I pay like $60 - $70 per month per person. I found highly detail oriented, responsible and non judgmental individuals via elance.com, guru.com, taskrabbit (before it changed its model.) I hired two people.

All they have to do it ping me on Skype/Gmail and ping me every hour for a few hours from Mon - Sat. Once in the morning and 3 to 4 times in the evening. It just takes them a few seconds. That's it. They will just check in on your progress and hold you accountable. They will notice patterns and give advice. Like for ex: If I am not very productive, they will tell me to go to Starbucks so I can focus. Basically I am outsourcing my executive functioning.

I am constantly on the lookout for tips and tricks that worked for other ADHD people who became successful. So, this one I picked from Trudie Styler (Sting's wife). Also it pays to read the comment section of ADHD related articles because that is a goldmine of useful anecdotal information. There was this case where the mom complained that the reason her son did well in school was because he failed a grade and was doing school with along his sister. His sister kept him on track and followed up with everything he was supposed to do. Now that he is about to go to college alone, the mom mentioned her fears about his future. So a combination of these pushed me to build a team around me that keeps me on track.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#107
For the past few years I've taken both Adderall and Vyvanse, with the past 2 years being Vyvanse. I thought I would be taking these drugs for the rest of my life if I wanted to be successful, because when I didn't take them, I could not focus on work tasks at all. However, the "cost" of these drugs for me was that I couldn't turn off. I was driven from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. My social life definitely suffered.

So, as I started a new job this year in January, I decided to make a clean break. I quit Vyvanse cold turkey and started a new job. I've been doing exceptionally. I never thought this could happen. Thinking back on the issue just yesterday I was telling a colleague that I thought this was likely because I must have been bored with the tasks at my previous job, and I've found all the new tasks to be interesting enough to bring out what I consider great performance from myself, though not the insane amount of performance I was doing on Vyvanse.

Anecdotal at best, but I independently came to the same conclusions as this article, for whatever it's worth.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#108
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar story here: early age, 0 or 100, high tests and little completion. The difference is I've been programming for most of my life (I'm not exaggerating; I started at 7y). It's likely because I started so young that I find that's my hyper focus outlet, though I still find that every time I try to learn Java it feels so painful I break something and run away (though I know C, C++, Obj-C, Swift, Python, PHP, Perl,…

The article insinuates that the core problem is the higher base line of stimulus required for motivation. How does Adderall fix this? Do you feel mundane repetitive tasks are more rewarding now? What about tasks that would feel great even without the medication? Do they overload your circuits then? Am curious as to how the drug manifests itself in your day to day routine.

Sp3000 made a relevant comment in response to this but he may be hellbanned as it came up dead.

The article cites research into dopamine receptor issues in those with ADHD and I believe adderall works to inhibit reuptake so you have more dopamine in circulation than you would normally.

I can't speak for everyone but personally it is never a matter of "this feels rewarding and this doesn't". It's more being able to function vs. not being able to function. Without medication "I know I need to do these things, man I should really do these things, look at this list I made of things I need to do" which can spiral into what may be depression when the things don't get done, people get let down, etc... Whereas with medication you are just able to do what you need/want to do.

With unmanaged ADHD I have many ideas and desires that would be rewarding to complete but I am frequently just unable to perform.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#109
post #64

It's weird and frustrating that people label many abnormalities as "diseases". When I read a list of ADHD symptoms I keep asking myself - how is that a bad thing? Being bored doing unenjoyable tasks, hating homework, "Not seem to listen when spoken to",Struggle to follow instructions,Dash around, touching or playing with anything and everything in sight, Have trouble sitting still during school and homework, Be const…

I made this reply further up, but in my case, it wasn't just being bored doing the unenjoyable tasks, but also the enjoyable tasks.

I need to second this. It isn't just being bored, it is being totally unable to function. There are things that I am interested in and REALLY want to learn/do/practice/build/enjoy but sometimes I am just totally incapable. I know what I want and I know what I need but I can't do it. Dr. Russell Barkley refers to ADHD as a performance disorder that was misnamed as an attention disorder and I tend to agree.

Re: A Natural Fix for A.D.H.D.?

#110
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. It primarily works on norepinephrine as a reuptake inhibitor. It's basically in the same class as bupropion (which is sometimes also prescribed off label for ADHD, though it's usually used as an antidepressant for those with cyclothymia or to aid in smoking cessation). Ritalin works by inhibiting the re-uptake of dopamine and norepin…

> Strattera usually isn't the first drug chosen, because it doesn't work for everyone. Strattera is supposedly the first avenue of treatment in Europe follwed by stimulants, the reverse of the US.

Oh, that's interesting. I live in the U.S.!
Post reply on HN