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Getting rid of burnout permanently

kentnguyen.com

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Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#101

Post by duderific »

logfromblammo wrote: post #69
paulhauggis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that there is really boring work in every project.

One man's grind is another man's passion. I'm usually the only one on any team that is willing to sit down with "that tool", written by some guy who left the company years ago (maybe using VBA Excel or Access macros because he wasn't actually a trained programmer), and understand it to the point that I can fix just one piece of it without rewriting the whole thing from scratch. And then I can recommend ways to wean t…

> But SLoC is a management metric here. Reducing the total lines of code would upset the applecart.

God... what a horrifying situation. That seems like exactly the opposite of what management should be doing. I get satisfaction when I can refactor copy/paste, unparameterized code with something more concise and easily testable. I hope you find a better place to be soon.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#102

Post by walkon »

normloman wrote: post #95
andyakb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This misses the point of the article. The author's premise is that you burnout because you do not spend time on the things that truly fulfill you, whatever those may be. It is very possible, and maybe even probable, that people who do not "work so hard" can still experience burn out because they do not use their free time to do the things that fulfill them. If you are working so hard that you simply cannot find any t…

I'm not missing the point of the article. I'm disregarding it. When you're working so hard that you burn out, we shouldn't be discussing how to mitigate the effects. Just stop working. This author tries to pretend the cause of burnout is not too much work, but too much "unfufilling" work. As if working from morning till midnight is perfectly fine, as long as you convince yourself the code you write in this half-aslee…

Hours worked doesn't always contribute to burnout. I can easily feel burnout working 40 hour weeks filled with unsatisfying work (e.g. bureaucratic paperwork, interruptions for unimportant issues, unchallenging problems, etc). Conversely, if I am actually able to code and develop an application that is semi-interesting, I could easily go past 40 hours a week and not feel any burnout because it is fulfilling and/or enjoyable. I could also stay at 40 or a little below.

The key consideration is (perceived) fulfillment. Time spent is involved in determining this, but isn't the only variable - importance of work, enjoyment/satisfaction, sense of accomplishment, etc.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#103

Post by throwaway3301 »

noir_lord wrote: post #34

Fantastic Article. Three weeks ago I hit absolute rock bottom with exhaustion from working hard for the last 2 years (I worked out I've been working 70-80 hour weeks since Dev 2010 with 8 days off in 4 years). I resolved to get my life sorted out, I cut back work hours drastically, started riding my bike more and went to the Doctors to get help with sleeping tablets and pain management (the last 3 months I've been wa…

Could I contact you somewhere to discuss the positive changes you are making in your life? I don't want to take away time from your busy schedule but I've been dealing with similar problems for the past couple years and I'd like to discuss strategies for moving past this darkness.

This line in particular really spoke to me as it's about all I can manage at the moment (hoping for change rather than actively pursuing change):

"I have off moments but I just remember how bad I felt when I was sat at 2am watching the moon wishing everything would end and that they will pass in time."

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#104

Post by abhimskywalker »

jimbokun wrote: post #23

"As a software developer, I’m passionate about writing codes and creating new things. However, as I also need to perform managerial duties, I had less and less time to do so. Repeatedly, I had to work for days without writing any useful code for the team, I became highly agitated." It's surprising how hard it can be to find time to just write code, even with a full time job in software development. Meetings. Email. T…

"All of these are good and important and necessary for any software product to succeed. But they call also really suck the passion and productivity out of a person." Exactly! How do you normally deal with these? (Just curious as a still younger developer who has recently left business corporate world (excel etc.) about a year ago to pursue developing as full time at a startup)

These are the most frustrating things that start consuming a growing chunk of your time. Writing code for hours on trot to solve problems is always a joy, but when these coding sessions start becoming rare... well you just start hating these hygiene things even more and at times this negativity starts extending to people and other stuff around... Not cool at all. Still looking for better solutions... as these are what i think contribute more towards the frustration and consequently burnouts

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#105

Post by zz1 »

mattmanser wrote: post #52
zz1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> shot down a nap room because it implies people should stay longer True! Smart move: did it work?

"Shot down" means that he said no, he dismissed the idea.

I misread "shut down" instead: thank you for correcting me. Still: people respond to incentives and turning down an idea like that and letting the employees know that… this is an incentive and it may have lead to some results. So the question still stands.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#106

Post by logfromblammo »

duderific wrote: post #101
logfromblammo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One man's grind is another man's passion. I'm usually the only one on any team that is willing to sit down with "that tool", written by some guy who left the company years ago (maybe using VBA Excel or Access macros because he wasn't actually a trained programmer), and understand it to the point that I can fix just one piece of it without rewriting the whole thing from scratch. And then I can recommend ways to wean t…

> But SLoC is a management metric here. Reducing the total lines of code would upset the applecart. God... what a horrifying situation. That seems like exactly the opposite of what management should be doing. I get satisfaction when I can refactor copy/paste, unparameterized code with something more concise and easily testable. I hope you find a better place to be soon.

I have been at least keeping my eyes open for almost two years. I have worked here for almost two years. I recognized almost immediately that this was a dead end for me, so I just turned the resume burner down to simmer.

I already have a job, and it pays well enough, so even considering the poor working conditions, I haven't seen any offers that would entice me to leave it. I don't really want to work with professional 3rd-party recruiters, and more than once I have walked away from a company that wanted to start negotiating salary before even inviting me to interview.

If this were San Francisco or Silicon Valley, I would probably be gone by now. But quieter markets seem somewhat less eager to hire anyone with less than exactly five years of experience, and are very reticent about paying anything extra for older prospective employees.

Aside from the job itself, I am getting so, so sick of modern software industry hiring practices. It seems like every person in every HR department is constantly keeping secrets and monitoring possible lines of sight from any hidden lawsuit snipers.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#107

Post by collyw »

paulhauggis wrote: post #41
cylinder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a programmer, but I burnout from being bored and unsatisfied with my work, I even get burnt out from feeling like I'm not doing enough. If I'm doing something engaging and exciting I'm more than happy to work long hours.

the problem is that there is really boring work in every project.

But there doesn't have to be.

I built the database and web interface for my current workplace 3 years ago. We used Excel as a temporary quick fix for inputting data. Problem is, we are still using it 3 years later. I am constantly cleaning up the mess of crap data being in the database because of this. Its really tedious, and has generated far more work than replacing excel with some proper web form that properly validates the data. I never get a chance to build the web forms, as it will take a week or two to do it properly. Instead I spend my time on tedious boring crap, that I shouldn't have to do, because management doesn't see it as a problem, other than me complaining about it.

If something is boring, there is a good chance it can be automated somewhat.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#108

Post by Sami_Lehtinen »

"how to deal with burnout more effective" - That's the key. I have noted that my burnout often comes from situation, where I constantly feel that I'm not doing enough. Reason for that is that you should do everything and always optimize to maximum and be efficient. Things get fixed when you accept, that it's ok to lazily get to work, do something, if you feel like it, if you don't then don't. Then wonder home enjoying the world, it might take hours. Eat something, watch soap opera and go to sleep. - Suddenly you can feel happy, and not burned out at all. Need to be effective and performing well is the ultimate trap.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#109

Post by collyw »

jimbokun wrote: post #23

"As a software developer, I’m passionate about writing codes and creating new things. However, as I also need to perform managerial duties, I had less and less time to do so. Repeatedly, I had to work for days without writing any useful code for the team, I became highly agitated." It's surprising how hard it can be to find time to just write code, even with a full time job in software development. Meetings. Email. T…

Actually I like to code, but I also like architecture and design bit. Sitting down with a pen and paper, working out options for the main algorithms, seeing what looks best. Meetings and emails, not so much.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#110

Post by bkjelden »

littleweep wrote: post #57
FiatLuxDave wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also coming from outside the bubble. From a different viewpoint, though, programmers aren't so bad about this. Try hanging out with some medical doctors and nurses, instead. I might think my 60 hour weeks are bad, but i just can't complain about it to my wife when she gets home from her 80 hour weeks. Burnout is a completely accepted part of nursing, and many nurses take it into account in career planning. Not sa…

The nurses I know have schedules that cap at three 12-hour days per week (36 hours/week). What kind of nurses work 80 hours a week?

Demand can be very bursty for nursing.

My wife works in postpartum care, and while she usually works 3 12.5 hr shifts per week, if the hospital is going through a busy time it can be more. In addition to her normal scheduled hours, she will have a few on-call shifts per month, and during feb-april (usually the busiest time of year around here) it's pretty much assumed that she'll get called in for these. In addition to the scheduled on-call shifts it's usually not hard to find other times that the hospital is in need.

Of course even at that, I don't think she's ever worked more than like, 60 hrs a week. I can't imagine anyone working 80 hr weeks consistently in nursing. It doesn't even seem safe - nursing is very physically and mentally demanding work, someone consistently overworked is much more likely to make mistakes.

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