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The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

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Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#101

Post by yellowapple »

dendory wrote: post #34

I think a big portion of the problems Linux has these days is how unbelievably bloated and overconvulated distributions have become. Every single function has three, four or more ways to do the same thing, often with different results. When trying to get something working I never know if I should run the /etc/init.d script, restart the service manually, edit a config file, use the command line config until or use the…

It's for this reason that I love openSUSE - or, more specifically, YaST. Thanks to YaST, you don't have to worry about all the crap that goes with getting a service to run and be configured properly.

I have a good number of servers and desktops running openSUSE, and only once have I had to manually edit a configuration file (in order to work around some obscure DBus glitch on a coworker's personal desktop); everything else has been manageable with YaST alone.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#102

Post by jdjb »

sandGorgon wrote: post #58
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no royalties for Flash. Well, apart from the yearly cap that Adobe pays. Similarly, Fluendo have been paying the cap for MP3 decoding since 2005 on their open source decoder for Linux. (MP3 decode should now be out of patent, as should most encode tasks but "intellectual property" likes to keep its boundary lines as vague as possible so you never know if you're trespassing and just pay out of fear/habit.) P…

I have only used Linux for the last 12 years. I use a thinkpad in an office full of macs and HP printers and 5ghz networks. None of it works as seamlessly as on a Mac. I'm pretty comfortable compiling my custom kernels, so I'm more than the average Joe trying to setup networking. There is still a reason why every Linux install asks you to explicitly select that you want mp3 codecs insralled. Flash is not installed by…

"There is still a reason why every Linux install asks you to explicitly select that you want mp3 codecs insralled." Ubuntu is the only installer I know of that does this...

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#103

Post by antocv »

clarry wrote: post #90
antocv wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I kind of never got NetworkManager to do any good, I just gave up, so mii-tool, dhcpcd, iwconfig, wpa_supplicant are well used tools, basically it works fine, when I actually have the drivers. These tools dont bail out on me or try to hide complexities behind more complex abstractions like NetworkManager does. If im going to be troubleshooting anything, its going to be the networking issue and not dbus to…

So basically you need four different tools to set up networking? Well, it sure sounds like the complexities are there and in plain sight then. I can't help but wonder though if it isn't possible to get rid of some of these complexities and make life simpler?

I dont know, possibly, I see now that mii-tool is packaged together with ip. So really, it depends, it is different layers - different tools , but could still package all together into one package and have one syntax for all. wpa_supplicant and dhcpcd should go under the net-tools/ip package too.

ip link should also show the information of link-speed from mii-tool, ip addr should take an dhcp argument instead of requiring a separate dhcpcd. Then merge wpa_supplicant into ip, perhaps make a ip-wlink which requires some SSID/keyphrase to set it to "up" state.

So wpa_supplicant dhcpcd iwconfig/iwlist/scan-tools should be merged to net-tools and have same syntax as the rest of the net-tools package.

But yeah, even then you need to learn the layers and set them up. In my opinion Windows got it wrong, its user interface is horrible and people often complain about networking problems which are really UI problems or bugs in Windows/drivers there too.

This problem is classic - networking is a stack and thats a fact, and the best tools/UI is one which allows you to dig through that stack layer by layer. On windows its all or nothing.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#104

Post by plg »

Not much better on OS X ... my brand new laptop with the most current OS X is totally unreliable about connecting to wi-fi on wake from sleep. Even on reboot half the time it fails. Maybe different cause from that highlighted by the OP's article ... but in the end not much better situation.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#105

Post by yellowapple »

krakensden wrote: post #39
sandGorgon wrote: post #27

Copy paste, printing and networking. Biggest usability misses of Linux. I don't consider these technical issues...but usability issues. Things like insisting on keeping the install ISO at 750 mb, leaves seamless driver support out of the todo list because...hey, there are no drivers anyway. I'm really surprised there is not a paid version of Linux with these features baked in. I would GLADLY pay for all these (as wel…

I haven't had trouble with printing in years- in fact, I can basically print on everything with no configuration, and people with OS X and Windows laptops seem to have lots of problems.

That's strange, since GNU/Linux and OS X both (last I checked) use CUPS for printing.

That said, it really depends on what printer(s) you buy. I've had wonderful experiences with HP printers, and tend to recommend them. Brother, Konica Minolta, and Epson printers work reasonably well with some tinkering and research in my experience.

Canon? Godspeed ;)

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#107

Post by taylorbuley »

atomicfiredoll wrote: post #38
scrollaway wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound isn't too great either. The BlueZ developers for example decided to drop HSF/HSP support in BlueZ 5.x [1], which means there is no way to get a bluetooth headset (with a microphone) working on Linux anymore; there's just no way. Although it's not like sound is great on Windows either. [1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Notes/5....

I'm just here (on my laptop with speakers that have mysteriously stopped working) to second any comments relating to the sorry state of Linux audio.

It's a good thing my brightness settings are stuck at 100% or I wouldn't be able to upvote this comment.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#108

Post by kzrdude »

clarry wrote: post #52
pwnna wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is copy-paste broken? I never had issues. I don't have issues anymore with printing and networking. I understand that this stuff is per vendor so I usually do my research before buying (I have thinkpads, and my printers are all pretty friendly). I do see many windows computer fall over when printers connect to new wireless networks, though. As for mp3, flash, isn't is as simple as enabling a non-free repository a…

> Why is copy-paste broken? I never had issues. Different programs use different conventions. For example, shift+insert does not do the same thing in say, xterm and firefox.

Chromium is slow to deliver the clipboard too (just containing text), so you press ctrl+v and wait for several seconds.

Chromium and some others take the clipboard with them when the app is Quit, suddenly the clipboad is cleared.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#109

Post by rbanffy »

I have 3 Linux laptops in the house. One with Intel running Ubuntu, another with Broadcom running Fedora and the third with a Prism interface running CentOS 6. All three work flawlessly.

We also have 3 Macbooks, a white one, a Pro 13 and a Retina 13. All three work flawlessly with our Wi-fi.

My wife had a corporate-issued HP laptop running Windows 7. It connected to our wireless once or twice over a year. I had a network cable for her.

My in-laws have a Windows 7 Dell laptop. It's now running Ubuntu, booted off a USB stick. It's doing so because Windows 7 sometimes connects to the network, sometimes doesn't and I never identified a pattern, so I simply gave up. Under Ubuntu, it works flawlessly.

And yet, somehow, it's the sad state of Linux wi-fi... Go figure...

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#110

Post by taylorbuley »

clarry wrote: post #90
antocv wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I kind of never got NetworkManager to do any good, I just gave up, so mii-tool, dhcpcd, iwconfig, wpa_supplicant are well used tools, basically it works fine, when I actually have the drivers. These tools dont bail out on me or try to hide complexities behind more complex abstractions like NetworkManager does. If im going to be troubleshooting anything, its going to be the networking issue and not dbus to…

So basically you need four different tools to set up networking? Well, it sure sounds like the complexities are there and in plain sight then. I can't help but wonder though if it isn't possible to get rid of some of these complexities and make life simpler?

It's not as complicated as it sounds in practice and can take the form of a simple config block in /etc/network/interfaces

        iface wlan0 inet dhcp

                wireless-essi DE:C0:D1:F1:ED  

                wireless-mode managed  

                wpa-ssid "Your SSID"  

                wpa-psk "YourPassword123"
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