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Literally worse than EA

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Re: Literally worse than EA

#101

Post by ripter »

nl wrote: post #31

Oh wow. Minecraft. I have an 8yo boy, so I spend a lot more time thinking about this than I would like. I think Mojang has it's priorities slightly wrong here. At the moment much of the interesting stuff in Minecraft is done via mods. But the user experience for that is pretty close to pre-Google search: browse through random forums to find links to dodgy download sites that attempt to push malware or porn to you. Th…

They have been working on and off an official Mod API for a while. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-mojang-hires-bu...

But this has nothing to do with monetizing servers, which is the point of the post.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#102

Post by jason_slack »

davidbanham wrote: post #3

Hosting game servers is hard, expensive work. Hosting Minecraft servers is even tougher since the hardware requirements are pretty steep and the main userbase doesn't have much money to kick into the pot. Minefold was a YC company that tried to make a go of monetising Minecraft hosting in the Right Way. They were smart guys and built a great platform, but they're not around any more. I believe it's because it was jus…

Although slightly weird to say, I am hosting a Minecraft server for my son and his friends to play on (14-16 year olds). It is a fast machine with 32gb of RAM, enterprise drives and it holds up great with 10 people on it. They are using over 400gb a month.

But I can totally see that a company trying to host minecraft servers as a business would really need a decent amount of hardware. This all costs money, plus electricity, plus bandwidth.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#103

Post by angersock »

arrrg wrote: post #69
SteveC wrote: post #62

As someone who actually runs a Minecraft server and has developed several mini games and around 50 plugins, I'd like to clarify a few things to people who aren't involved in Minecraft. * Minecraft is pretty expensive to host. The top servers are paying tens of thousands a month in hosting. Only a few servers make enough to cover wages. Most just barely scrape by. DDOS protection is pretty much essential to any server…

So it’s expensive and hard. So what? Doesn’t mean scummy play to win bullshit is something to be proud of, especially when targeting children. I mean, what Mojang now permits I consider just barely ethically acceptable. Do know that these pay to win schemes are extremely disgusting and that you are far from behaving ethically if you use them. If you can live with that … The legal discussion is kind of boring to me in…

When you've added enough patches, operations, and hardware to the initial game, I think it's totally reasonable to be able to charge for that. Mojang should just sell a license of the server software (perhaps with better patches, yeah?) to resellers, ala cPanel or what have you.

They basically have this one-trick-pony which is now effectively maintained by the community at zero cost to them--no wonder they're being silly.

EDIT: Somebody should just release an extendable open-source clone of the game, with art assets, and just force their hand.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#104

Post by arrrg »

nl wrote: post #88
arrrg wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Again, this is the misconception that game developers can only ever do one thing at a time. True for one or two person developers, not true for Mojang. They can afford lawyers. Developers will have nothing to do with the implementation of this policy. They are working on the modding API, just as before. Also, this was triggered from the outside. Someone asked for clarification on the policy, Mojang looked over a…

It's good that they are (allegedly) working on a plugin API[1]. That is necessary but insufficient to fix the problems I outlined. Additionally, the plugin API is clearly a low priority: it was supposed to be released in 2010, then spoken about in 2012, and now the website and github page have been taken down (according to [1]). At the practical level "working on it for over 4 years with signs it might not be shipped…

Ok, offtopic rants are not ok.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#105

Post by ovulator »

spain wrote: post #100
techtalsky wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not really "the real question". Kids are smart. The know how to get what they want and parents can't be everywhere at any moment. SOME percentage of kids are going to figure out how to pay for goods with very little understanding of their relative value. Preying on kids in this position skirts the borders of what's ethical. I'm not saying all server owners are guilty of this, but Mojang has their position…

If kids outwit their parents and spend their money then that's the parents fault, not the servers. True, the parents can't always be everywhere which is why they need to teach children to act responsibly. If that kid keeps continuously taking money out of your bank account when you're not looking and blowing it on Minecraft then the parent is doing something wrong. If there was no Minecraft they'd spend the money on…

That's ridiculous.

Some ten year old kid wants a $300 item on a Minecraft server. The kid has been told he can't use his parent's credit card without permission, he knows he can't, but guess what: even good kids break the rules, and he knows his parents have the money. He just saw them write a $5,000 check for his private tuition! (they want to raise him right) That $5,000 check though left them with $200 in the bank for the rest of the month...

I'm not for or against server monitization, but trying to blame the parents is ridiculous. Kids are not exact molds that their parents have shaped.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#106

Post by VLM »

DanBC wrote: post #91
jiggy2011 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be more profitable to simply develop and sell mods rather than running servers since your costs will be lower? Unless you mean just using the mod as a key to access the server in which case you'd be better off just charging for passwords to the server because otherwise you have to worry about people using pirate copies of your mod to connect.

No one buys mods, which is why they are hosted on terrible sharing services - it's the only way the developer can get any money.

Thats another interesting point, that FOSS or even shareware hasn't arrived in minecraft culture.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#107

Post by derefr »

spain wrote: post #98
derefr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that the elderly will call their web browser "the Googles", children will also tend to think of the first implementation of a concept they find as the definitive one. The idea will never occur to them that there's any other Minecraft server than Bob's Private MineCraft Capitalism Extravaganza that their friend introduced them to and plays on.

Children aren't smart, this much is known. This is fighting the symptom, not the cause. The real issue is that children who can't spend their money responsibly shouldn't have that money in the first place . If we go by the assumption that a child won't know when they're paying for a legitimate product or being exploited then why give them any money? If they don't spend it on a pay-to-win server then they'll spend it…

Now apply your line of reasoning back to the elderly. It feels weird to say the words when you're pointing them at a higher-status group.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#108

Post by MrZongle2 »

ripter wrote: post #101
nl wrote: post #31

Oh wow. Minecraft. I have an 8yo boy, so I spend a lot more time thinking about this than I would like. I think Mojang has it's priorities slightly wrong here. At the moment much of the interesting stuff in Minecraft is done via mods. But the user experience for that is pretty close to pre-Google search: browse through random forums to find links to dodgy download sites that attempt to push malware or porn to you. Th…

They have been working on and off an official Mod API for a while. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-29-mojang-hires-bu... But this has nothing to do with monetizing servers, which is the point of the post.

True, but OP is on-target here. I've got two boys who were rabid Minecraft players, and although I'm not a (current) Java developer I can confirm that the modding process is a horror.

How does this relate to the monetization issue? Well, from a technical perspective Mojang seems to be phoning it in these days, in terms of Minecraft.

The console and mobile versions seem to be getting regular love while the core PC version has been in near-limbo for most of 2014. The plugin API, promised for well over a year (and I suspect over two) is still nowhere to be seen. Notch, creator of the game, isn't even involved with it anymore beyond the occasional "voice from the mountain" posts such as this. While I'm sure they have some talented people touching the code (e.g. Jeb and Dinnerbone), the focus and drive appear to be missing.

So when I hear about the EULA debacle and the half-assed cloud of confusion and conflicting messages coming from Mojang, I'm not surprised. I like the game, but have no idea if anybody's really steering that ship with a particular destination in mind.

Re: Literally worse than EA

#109

Post by chc »

ovulator wrote: post #105
spain wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If kids outwit their parents and spend their money then that's the parents fault, not the servers. True, the parents can't always be everywhere which is why they need to teach children to act responsibly. If that kid keeps continuously taking money out of your bank account when you're not looking and blowing it on Minecraft then the parent is doing something wrong. If there was no Minecraft they'd spend the money on…

That's ridiculous. Some ten year old kid wants a $300 item on a Minecraft server. The kid has been told he can't use his parent's credit card without permission, he knows he can't, but guess what: even good kids break the rules, and he knows his parents have the money. He just saw them write a $5,000 check for his private tuition! (they want to raise him right) That $5,000 check though left them with $200 in the bank…

That's extremely true, but at any rate, I can't see any way around the fact that the actions of their child and the use of their credit card are more their responsibility than the server owner's. (Even if they don't control their child, neither does a random Minecraft server owner!)

Re: Literally worse than EA

#110

Post by zapu »

Alupis wrote: post #97
owsla wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point with #2 is that DDoS protection is included with most dedicated server plans. It doesn't cost "significantly extra" as this guy claims- at least I've never seen that.

Cloudflare also offers some free services ;-P

You can't exactly route real-time game traffic over proxy designed to filter http traffic.
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