Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 127 posts

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#101

Post by JohnTHaller »

stephenr wrote: post #95
piyush_soni wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean they are just a little less baseless than the patent for 'rounded corners'?

Apple doesn’t have a patent for rounded corners. They have a design patent for the ornamental design of the iPad. Just like Google has design patents for the ornamental design of a smiley face, a usb cable, a “computer icon” etc etc. Just like Samsung has a design patent for the ornamental design of a "Terminal for portable mobile communication”, which based on the images looks like a tablet. In 1981 some company got…

D670,286 is, quite literally, a design patent on a rectangle with rounded corners (it's about the solid lines in the drawing). And they sued Samsung over it and Samsung was forced to make the rounded corners on the top and bottom of their phone different sizes. Despite the fact that multiple phones and tablets predated the iPad and iPhone and were rectangles with rounded corners.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#102

Post by stephenr »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #101
stephenr wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t have a patent for rounded corners. They have a design patent for the ornamental design of the iPad. Just like Google has design patents for the ornamental design of a smiley face, a usb cable, a “computer icon” etc etc. Just like Samsung has a design patent for the ornamental design of a "Terminal for portable mobile communication”, which based on the images looks like a tablet. In 1981 some company got…

D670,286 is, quite literally, a design patent on a rectangle with rounded corners (it's about the solid lines in the drawing). And they sued Samsung over it and Samsung was forced to make the rounded corners on the top and bottom of their phone different sizes. Despite the fact that multiple phones and tablets predated the iPad and iPhone and were rectangles with rounded corners.

They sued samsung over a number of combined similarities:

"Closely comparing Apple's patented design with Samsung's products reinforces the conclusion of substantial similarity. Samsung copied every major element of Apple's patented design:

* a flat, clear, black-colored, rectangular front surface with four evenly rounded corners [emphasis mine];

* an inset rectangular display screen centered on the front surface that leaves very narrow borders on either side of the display screen and substantial borders above and below the display screen; and

* a rounded, horizontal speaker slot centered on the front surface above the display screen,

* where the rectangular front surface is otherwise substantially free of ornamentation outside of an optional button area centrally located below the display."

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#103

Post by jonyt »

ttctciyf wrote: post #94
x0054 wrote: post #20

Have you guys looked at the patents in this case? They look thick and serious, but if you actually read the claims, you will soon realize that it's nothing but an obvious and straightforward procedure for deciding when and with whom to establish a VPN. None of these patents make sure that a VPN connection is more secure, more reliable, or in any way better. Majority of the patent is explanation on how a VPN works, di…

Reminds me of http://www.google.com/patents/US20070258329 : "Method and apparatus for the exploitation of piezoelectric and other effects in carbon-based life forms." Despite the huge prolegomena which would in fact work as a crash course in fringe geometry and pseudoscience, it turns out to be a patent for a golf club (I think .) The point being, how does stuff like this even get past USPTO? Don't they employ people…

It's possible that people employ weed to come up with this nonsense.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#104

Post by rando289 »

eliben wrote: post #97

Could someone explain what the thing with East Texas is? A district where juries and judges are more favorable than usual towards patents? This sound kind-of ridiculous, no? Can't the defending companies find similar anti-patent areas and file counter-suites there?

> Could someone explain what the thing with East Texas is? A district where juries and judges are more favorable than usual towards patents?

It started a bit randomly, based on the politics of the region the judges/juries were slightly more favorable toward patents than anywhere else. Then it became self perpetuating since it helps the local economy & the judges own careers.

> This sound kind-of ridiculous, no?

Absolutely ridiculous. Patents are federal law, but 1 small region is effectively making serious changes to that legislation.

> Can't the defending companies find similar anti-patent areas and file counter-suites there?

They do. There are a range of locations, never in east texas. No one place has emerged as THE anti-patent location. For example, Microsoft files suit in Seattle since it's based there, has influence, people want it to win since it's a benefit to their local economy, etc.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#105

Post by tptacek »

bsder wrote: post #58
rayiner wrote: post #17

I don't know if it's fair to call VirnetX a "patent troll." They're an NPE, but there's no indication that they're abusing the process or trying to get a low-ball settlement just to avoid actually going to court. Furthermore, the patents aren't just something they churned out. The technology in question was developed by SAIC for the CIA. SAIC is a major defense contractor and R&D company: http://www.washingtonpost.co…

> I don't know if it's fair to call VirnetX a "patent troll." Filing in East Texas pretty much defines you as a patent troll. If you have a real case, you don't have to go to East Texas to litigate it.

Is that actually true? Did you research it? A good data set to back this claim up would be a list of non-trollish patent suits that weren't filed in EDTX. As it stands, the properties that make EDTX attractive for trolls could logically make EDTX a better venue for all kinds of patent cases.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#106

Post by EGreg »

nl wrote: post #89
EGreg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are patent trolls if they push the business to settle out of court, which usually is only possible with small businesses.

A lot of patent suits are settled out of court. Look up the IBM/Sun case, or the Apple/Microsoft cross licensing deal. All settled out of court.

An NPE which pushes to settle out of court.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#107

Post by EGreg »

tempestn wrote: post #88
EGreg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are patent trolls if they push the business to settle out of court, which usually is only possible with small businesses.

AFAIK it's pretty common in any lawsuit to try to convince the other party to settle out of court.

An NPE which pushes to settle out of court.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#109

Post by JohnTHaller »

stephenr wrote: post #102
JohnTHaller wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D670,286 is, quite literally, a design patent on a rectangle with rounded corners (it's about the solid lines in the drawing). And they sued Samsung over it and Samsung was forced to make the rounded corners on the top and bottom of their phone different sizes. Despite the fact that multiple phones and tablets predated the iPad and iPhone and were rectangles with rounded corners.

They sued samsung over a number of combined similarities: "Closely comparing Apple's patented design with Samsung's products reinforces the conclusion of substantial similarity. Samsung copied every major element of Apple's patented design: * a flat, clear, black-colored, rectangular front surface with four evenly rounded corners [emphasis mine]; * an inset rectangular display screen centered on the front surface tha…

And ALL of that already existed in the marketplace before the iPhone. Heck, the things that are claimed to be unique in what you quote above is an almost exact description of the LG Prada which came out before the iPhone.

Seriously, look at this a moment: http://i.imgur.com/iBD3A1z.jpg

Remove the phone answer/end keys from the bottom row, and it basically is the front of the iPhone. Re-read what you wrote above and look at that picture of the LG Prada. That design patent should have never been issued.

Re: Patent troll on the verge of winning 1% of iPhone revenue

#110

Post by fleitz »

adventured wrote: post #49
fleitz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So sort of like Universities?

Some universities are absolutely on the list of most aggressive and abusive patent trolls. Some universities are also among those fighting hardest to keep the status quo in place so they can continue to harm the US economy with frivolous patents and milk a broken system.

Yes! We need to get rid of those fat cats in Washington! LULZ.
Post reply on HN