Programming is not going to be as lucrative a few years from now. As soon as interest rates rise in a few years the startup boom will cool down a bit and the influx of new programmers will really depress the earning potential of the field.
Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
101–110 of 201 posts
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#102What I'd be interested in, if anyone has a perspective to share, is whether we should be worried? Will the job market change? Will our salaries stagnate or fall?
Keep an eye on graduation rates. Enrollment numbers mean nothing for your concern. How many people do you think can meet a min GPA after completing core physics, math, and CS classes?
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#103How about "Possibly, they see people making ridiculous amounts of money in tech and want a piece of it?"
When I started college in 1982 as a CS/EE double major, the big-money major was petroleum engineering. If I remember correctly, they lost a lot of people who had done well in high-school when they hit the calculus for engineers classes.
It's just the same now with CS. We lost 75% of CS prospects in the first semester, almost all of them due to Calculus (although I think some of them came in with the malformed idea that programming was just like video games).
I kept in contact with some of the folks who dropped out or switched majors - they're working at convenience stores and the like.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he's saying that "it's unlikely that Princeton will ever have 10% of its faculty dedicated to computer science". Despite the demand, universities want to remain balanced and avoid becoming trade schools. "Ditto" means "same for UW"; Ed Lazowska is the department chair at UW.
Despite the demand, universities want to remain balanced and avoid becoming trade schools. Take a look at Matthew Reed's Confessions of a Community College Dean as well. There are other factors at work: 1. Tenured faculty can remain until they die. Almost every school still has tenured faculty from popular areas in the 70s. 2. It can be dangerous to chase trends, thanks to tenure: if the school tenures a bunch of CS…
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Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#105Professionals who talk about this stuff never mention that learning computer science is a lot like learning a foreign language. The people who learn something in their early years tend to have an easier time learning new computer skills as they age. I wish more parents knew this.
I learned programming & CS at age 18 and I'm on par with people I met who learned it at say 11. I learned English starting at age 5 (I read as almost fluently in English as in my mother tongue, Russian); I learned Hebrew starting at age 10 (I have a hideous accent and prefer to read in other languages); and I tried French in university at age 20 (it was the only time I had to take private lessons to pass the exam). I…
I said its a lot like learning a foreign language. So learning a foreign language when young would likely help you learn to program when older. Your case only helps to prove my point.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by transition into another career? Using your programming experience in a tangential field? Getting into management?
Anything, really (well, aside from areas requiring additional formal education and/or expensive in time and/or money credentials; this not a path to becoming a doctor, lawyer, scientist, etc.). There's very basic "work skills" that any job requires, e.g. showing up; the object here is to get a "real", career type of job before, say, a couple of years have passed unemployed, after which I've read its very very hard to…
That sounds like an awful waste of 20 years' worth of skills and experience. I never saw this "check out at 35-40 and do something else" advice given in other specialized and relevant professions, but I can see how it may fit in the context of a jobs bubble where the industry can't sustain all the gold-rushers for their entire working life.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#107Professionals who talk about this stuff never mention that learning computer science is a lot like learning a foreign language. The people who learn something in their early years tend to have an easier time learning new computer skills as they age. I wish more parents knew this.
Programming and graphic design perhaps (personally, I've yet to meet someone who programmed as a child who was better than a good programmer who learned later), but I really doubt there is much of an advantage to teaching your child Depth-First Search. I don't really think CS is like learning a foreign language at all. The advantage for languages supposedly comes from the fact that we are hard-wired to acquire langua…
The 'critical period' hypothesis is not the only theory and I don't believe its a useful one.
I think you're misinformed if you think brain development can be said to taper off in any way over 18 years. There is pretty clear evidence that it happens in distinct stages.
I think the real mechanism is that learning symbolic logic early causes a type of confidence that adults without find hard to acquire. Of course, my opinion doesn't really count here since my Karma is negative one now.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I was going to college this fall instead of 20 years ago I would get a tattoo on my arm reminding me that extra classes and networking pay off better long term than drinking beer and getting laid. But... I'd probably do the same thing all over again anyway.
Conferences are better for that than college, all things considered, and the networking is better too.
Good point. And, the beer drinking is often at conferences too. The getting laid part...eh...well... Go to college kids! It's important and you will learn all kinds of great things.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Experienced engineers will still have an advantage in a job search. Few things to consider: - First job: Getting the first one is always the hardest, the whole needs experience, but where do I get experience if no one gives me the chance scenario. Luckily programmers can have highly visable projects. - Job markets do change: It's about supply and demand. US programmers makes more, especially in the SF Bay Area than a…
" First job " That's an outstanding point, especially in today's economy. It sucks that a conventional programming career generally ends at age 35-40, but for someone not wedded to a programming career, and who has a modicum of talent and interest in the field, yeah, that'll get them started. They will then have plenty of time to arrange their first transition into another career, and they will have learned a lot of…
> It sucks that a conventional programming career generally ends at age 35-40
I think this is a myth. I'm 39. I've yet to see any sign that experienced engineers who keep their skills up to date have any issue at all. We just hired someone I estimate is in their late 50's.
Re: Responding to the Explosion of Student Interest in Computer Science [pdf]
#110The problem is that 'computational thinking' has become expected of a university education, regardless of major , but universities haven't shifted to meet the need. All the other basic requirements of a university education are filled through entry level classes - credit-fillers that students have to take in order to graduate. This structure works out well for everyone: the university ensures that students are gettin…
>credit-fillers that students have to take in order to graduate. This structure works out well for everyone: the university ensures that students are getting a well-rounded education (as opposed to a trade-school degree)
Do you really think the irrelevant classes are necessary at this level though? The student has had all of elementary through high school to be exposed to the broad subject range. By the time you enter university you should know what you're doing. None of my credit filler requirements have been especially enlightening or broadening; mostly just annoying. A Greek and Roman history class I took was interesting to me at least, but I don't see much value forcing another CS student to take it. If I have to take one more English class I might just drop out and start my own company.
Do you really think universities believe in the "rounded education" goal, or do they just know that making you take more classes gets them more money?